From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:17:42 +0200 Message-ID: <87fstm2oeh.fsf@gnus.org> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6473"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phil Sainty Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 30 15:19:06 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvxq-0001UP-GF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:19:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37286 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvxp-0001lX-EV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:19:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60970) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvwg-00009E-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:17:57 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:59764) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvwe-0000x5-Qg; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:17:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=UNEf9A2SKPW0hKyyCZlAuYHF//w7AjSQe80Ejinz5fQ=; b=m+H4RbkVxLkZG6HacdMsTbWi8Q CtWNyJPROOKnzBgMqlvKj04cdSQC3EqfwCc4daS2rEOj5WDGDcjofz5MqWO3m4wII56b6j4o/Q2U5 wfJSPcBPomJRROqL2bqO9aqOlkau46Fp/k4h3JJzPPcTLbcaBJBQq9C2oAN3ez52rbEE=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvwV-00065X-VC; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:17:47 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWXlWNpalDFzrf/ //+6G1XXAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAlwSFlzAAALEgAACxIB0t1+/AAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHgw4DVe/ W24AAAEDSURBVCjPbdG9boQwDAfwfxCWKqYghb0duvAUQTqWm5wq3ts36XBT99tvaKWKp6zzBQw1 QsoPJ8GJgRQGw6aBf0A4QOQPTCLzkTlDdQKmHQbUnwHs0xZd1eC8vg00ok0j3ZgbDIww27nCBu8r AJEVrqATrZOogCXHNcO5UWIDmV6PsA4F1jtaLgV9WBiMmmGS0Z+gZRc8SQy+og8SVkWXQDehA9+B XlCBaLSyBrH6f99gFFzxPn2INOhQM7ZgTadhh4Ikfr6VDRZ9IkpGQkxj1HJC4ApDd3E75GcwDXCv jrRqzPl6490feLPYga9PTA3b9sDku9yfdOEkyN3WL78oXdz+AJswgvt/SGGhAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAq AAAACAAFARIAAwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMA AwAAAAEAAQAAAAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIx LTA5LTMwVDEyOjU2OjEzKzAwOjAw6jVWUAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wOS0zMFQx Mjo1NjoxMyswMDowMJto7uwAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAAABJ RU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Body =?utf-8?Q?Me=CF=80a's?= _The Work Is Slow_: "Bullitt" In-Reply-To: (Phil Sainty's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2021 01:23:48 +1300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275890 Archived-At: Phil Sainty writes: > The first use-case is to do with the "s" library, and finding > a way to rename all of that code with a longer prefix without > requiring other libraries currently requiring "s" to change > much. I'm still dubious that this is worth doing; but I must > acknowledge that if it *is* to be supported, then it does indeed > mean providing some way to translate "s-" symbols to their > longer names. Yes, that's the implicit intended use case, but it's not spelled out anywhere. > The second use-case, and the one I think will prove to be FAR > more common if this goes ahead, is this: Some people simply want > to read and write shorter symbol names in their code. Yes, if we had a more ergonomic syntax for this, then a large portion of people would be writing (require 'gnus-summary :as x) (require 'xref :as gs) etc etc, since this is what they do in many modern languages (and I'm not much fan of it there, either). But since the syntax is the really awkward ;; Local Variables: ;; elisp-shorthands: (("t-" . "my-tricks-") ;; ("sns-" . "some-nice-string-utils-")) ;; End: it'll hopefully be less appealing to people. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no