From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Moving kbd to subr.el Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:37:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87fssvgfiq.fsf@gnus.org> References: <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <874k9juy0r.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtnbtimj.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnmd13ny.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfx10xs6.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7dfpjn3.fsf@gnus.org> <31b2f1e94178d73e5f05@heytings.org> <83fsszfnjw.fsf@gnu.org> <31b2f1e9412c9002c8f4@heytings.org> <875ytvpgnn.fsf@gnus.org> <838ryqftlh.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgr487cj.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0i7jdid.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwvgi6u.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9621"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , gregory@heytings.org, Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 21 07:25:02 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mdQZa-0002Ds-F1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 07:25:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59420 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdQZY-0008Un-IH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 01:25:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdPpH-0006eB-G4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:37:11 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:44822) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mdPpE-0006aW-5L; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:37:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=iiNwE1bw519vN+fO3cJdRYuSCxA7bbQKKLYzqb0Q7L8=; b=aNB9Gd8nt2fzuN4tw0bUy9bY78 /+LLqer03CEZNpvE9CPNTrDVsJoIYVZ2O/IG7woIjimd0K1l13XPVF+vYF5sxI5e+wyrI7VRoqBpr 88AO9jUJlYxobOa3j5OHXT4CV0zMPMdnO2v9Mq7OGtlqX1yfW5MqOMKfYlCsiUFQqvMg=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mdPp7-0006As-PY; Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:37:04 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVmtfJ/f423y8+b X1lLLzj///8Z8KpJAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UKFQQgFC99x54AAAFtSURBVDjLrdNR koMgDAZg0B6AQA6g0AMI4QBlyf3PtIFWq6u7MzvT/6Ez8DUkjKrUB6ONVtYPRgNYDQPADBasQC7B xjgso+OCGbgiW+ZJ6RTmuICKY3NtgnFzSsEoHUFlExXAHWwBM6rs5oICnA2qOLiI1WT6CvITapHe kxTLQfAYp+j9MspRkKJAwckpQFhGKOQE0NkH9qmUU5mtCTWOVUkF2WWc1tsM5/vBFjP4wb8iEKiF mWjx78gF5/ZnJK5gnnvzD+DSwa4VQwPnmLkuPgD0g2kFcDk3kLSWmd9AvAPeVVSB3uN4lOO8VvSC vE6FlV49glxIBmnQTsp91eBek897kAWXBpYS7oE7gA+eEj17NOAXtFnbxCe4V6JAvo97AEcyXkwb uDdIEm2AB6ALuGfZrCsQbbA9pwa8pRwe7e0vKHiC9fU5vlKyNp/8BH//Nk+t18iYl/s3Bj7NphuU hI/rCj5X9CBe9/h3vgHNwHGMbot6eAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMS0xMC0yMVQwNDoz MjoyMCswMDowMBsM4/UAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjEtMTAtMjFUMDQ6MzI6MjArMDA6 MDBqUVtJAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Sylvester's _Sylvester-Step II_: "Down, Down, Down" In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:07:58 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:277498 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > But let's say we were to promote `kbd-*' mainly for use in Emacs and > packages, and that we drop support for string syntax there (only > allowing instead e.g. the XEmacs [(control meta x)] syntax). And let's > say we coupled this with promoting e.g. `bind-key' as the strictly > user-facing way to bind keys. In this case, perhaps the balance would > be different. > > For example, do we need to demand "C-" instead of "C-return" in > our strictly user-facing function? Maybe not. But we should IMO > definitely demand that if you want to bind a command to the six > character sequence, you need to specify that as "r e t u r n". I don't see much value in allowing either the XEmacs syntax nor a sloppy kbd syntax here. I do see value in having the syntax be exactly the same as `describe-key' outputs -- then the user knows that they can round-trip these things from `kbd-bind' to seeing it in *Help* in exactly the same form. You (kbd-local-bind "C-") and then you hit `C-h b' and see C- in the *Help* buffer and all is well with the world, and there's nothing mysterious going on. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no