From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On Contributing To Emacs Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 21:59:17 +0800 Message-ID: <87fsqbtsui.fsf@localhost> References: <87tuesndye.fsf@localhost> <834k6rlfk6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5458"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 29 14:59:35 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n2ZUL-00014t-Rg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 14:59:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48154 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2ZUK-0005tC-5G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 08:59:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58762) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2ZSp-0004lc-VM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 08:57:59 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::52c] (port=39741 helo=mail-ed1-x52c.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2ZSo-0000gM-DZ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 08:57:59 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id f5so86612767edq.6; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 05:57:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=kNCcgwnOvxftM0aKw+dbI2wx74Dl8D0QxPhaeGWX3ao=; b=kVADAU7tCDU6u5s+ce+v2zrETpevf8XjhHo6+dx1DkXzvAbWFgu3k/6SUiRVMkbnyV I6O4ycNv3EqanWTB++0FdqCJrPbDViRUqYA1MsqFbNAKQxOm2RxJOM8qik53mtE7WWIk 79sUXyT70+xPhjxvMKoX6FIQjmer8yLyPKls+MObQyl9P4LezOf0hvdfyZUCIZUMZSny uW6rwMYuOtnd/nBXFaCJa5mEIgAmwujJLiIz1rIDOKbiag0x7O1TXfZVlI2N0H76doQv joDvQH4BJXzGCXD3AVdXS39sUjrh+dCNOUm+BlrwGqhC0wBt/kp6iN+dEQCsa/u5WQKi tM5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=kNCcgwnOvxftM0aKw+dbI2wx74Dl8D0QxPhaeGWX3ao=; b=C3p3Q/0Vr5fw8ppnNWNh2+JXq8ubmllfalBtCfr21EMf0g/i36hQGuHOwkIksZ6SXC teKkZdIFaXALRgeYOxiQeW2fH3+fpzLCH0uWJ4DhgRnN6f8Rqm8F1K0Uex4tsHE8yKkf 9VvwoVWuijqfDie4H+Z18JwTcHwUgbcofqWmPU06+EqwJbabGJ1A1wVbWJ2tH9L5aKmq IQvKoew/hDZP/fZmJx+TY5petn3MPPQCHNdi2HOO7NysAcLiQekVOd6F0pB58eHC4vA/ qaxln0u0liZPU8Qj76L4PSMmwbX5yBXI0LsO5D/pC+wCYPYPNlUwHTQLlOx7EUSMm7j8 BWDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532UEm8utaUsGV3skHVhV79KUmCeaq2IMhpFa0L6NAsCgJ/YB3qE 9frMWiU5EFUdKszFzlHMNdDSpEJez07c/sTd X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuAab9vUoyftKyQJbBmm3ZB6ZdXCdR8z7XuXjKaMGcfZKsw9wzz8fBuecvAClI6EsPp1NyZA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3ea8:: with SMTP id hs40mr21008209ejc.353.1640786276438; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 05:57:56 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost ([91.210.107.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id hp18sm6914211ejc.120.2021.12.29.05.57.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 29 Dec 2021 05:57:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <834k6rlfk6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::52c (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52c; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283560 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > So if we want to add something like that to CONTRIBUTE, we need to > rephrase it so that it fits the purpose of this file. I cannot yet > see how to rephrase that, but that's probably because I don't > understand Ihor's request in the first place: why would it be useful > to have this information in CONTRIBUTE, which is a large file most of > which is utterly irrelevant to ELPA? My thinking was as follows: 1. There was a complaint: >> - Development velocity is glacial. With releases around once per year >> and there being no easily accessible distribution mechanism for >> development updates, high-velocity projects or projects that must adapt >> to a changing ecosystem (straight.el satisfies both of those criteria) >> simply do not have a place in Emacs core as it exists today. 2. The answer to it was that core packages can be distributed through ELPA to provide updates between Emacs releases. 3. I tried to simulate a newcomer aiming to contribute a new built-in package to Emacs, but willing to update the contribution frequently. I opened CONTRIBUTE file and tried to search useful information with the above setup in mind. 4. I did not find anything useful from a first glance (from folded headlines) 5. Because someone in the thread pointed that frequent updates in Emacs core can be distributed through ELPA, I looked into ELPA section. 6. ELPA section is very confusing with this mindset (and in general as well). I suggested to improve it by adding information that ELPA can be actually used to distribute built-in packages. Note that in my last reply to Stefan I also began to think that information about built-in package updates should better be described in a dedicated section that is visible from the outline. Best, Ihor