From: Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org>
Subject: Re: German tutorial fix
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 17:26:16 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87elg8upk7.fsf@emacswiki.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87offctgcb.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> (Miles Bader's message of "19 May 2002 22:30:44 +0900")
Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:
> It's easily observable by any touch-typist, by (1) taking some time to
> get used to the control-keys, and (2) trying both for about 3 seconds
> while typing in some text. It's not a subtle thing.
I do not find it easily observable. I bet it also depends on keyboard
layout and customizations outside of Emacs. Furthermore, I think the
tutorial should not care about it, even if it were true.
>> People like Jef Raskin ("The Humane Interface") will argue for
>> "dedicated keys" such as the arrow keys.
>
> If Jef Raskin has a good reason why the arrow keys should be used to the
> exclusions of other cursor movement keys -- in a text editor, even when
> they are less efficient -- then by all means, give his arguments.
I also do not thing that the burden of proof is on me. I do not
believe your claim, so I think the burden of proof is on you (or
Richard, since he said something similar). Skimming the TOC and
checking some chapters selectively, I think here is what he might say:
1. Habit formation -- sometimes you use the arrow keys, sometimes C-f
to move point. That is bad for habit formation.
2. GOMS keystroke level model -- arrow keys might involve hand
movement similar to moving from the keyboard to the mouse, thus you
have one H element in the analysis, and a K for the press, and
mentally preparing M. C-f has mentally preparing, and two
keypresses. The timing he gives for the simplified analysis would
be M = 1.35s, K = 0.2s, H = 0.2s, thus the two are exactly
equivalent as far as the GOMS model is concerned.
3. Hick's Law -- since you now have two equivalent methods of moving
point, this not only hampers habit formation, it also imposes a
cognitive burden when you have to choose between the two.
Anyway, enough of that. These points are not even necessarily true.
My claim is just that 1. C-f is not obviously better, and
2. conflicting opinions exist. So why use it as an argument, if we
have far better arguments at hand? For example stupid terminals.
> If a user knows about `C-n' meaning `next-line' it not only allows
> them to move to the next line, but provides a point of reference
> which makes it easier to remember that for instance that a plain `n'
> moves to the next line or next message in many modes.
This is a valid argument. Notice that in my suggestion for a new
text, I did describe the control keys because of the dumb terminals.
This is also a good point to explain the mnemonics, I agree.
> Knows for sure about what? Which is better for RSI? Is that even an
> issue?
I have it, RMS had it, iirc, Ben Wing had it, JWZ had it, James
Gosling had it, ... health might be just as important as typing speed.
Alex.
--
http://www.electronicintifada.net/diaries/index.html
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/hr2506c.html
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2002-05-19 15:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2002-05-14 13:07 German tutorial fix Mario Lang
2002-05-14 15:05 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-05-16 7:22 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-16 10:37 ` Kai Großjohann
2002-05-16 12:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-16 14:10 ` Andreas Fuchs
2002-05-16 15:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-17 19:28 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-18 0:44 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-05-18 2:00 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-18 7:17 ` Andreas Fuchs
2002-05-18 11:59 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-05-18 12:12 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-18 12:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-18 13:11 ` Andreas Fuchs
2002-05-19 4:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-19 5:30 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-18 20:36 ` Kim F. Storm
2002-05-20 22:58 ` Francesco Potorti`
2002-05-19 5:30 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-19 12:54 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-05-19 13:30 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-19 14:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2002-05-19 15:26 ` Alex Schroeder [this message]
2002-05-19 16:10 ` Miles Bader
2002-05-20 10:47 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-05-23 19:45 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-23 23:45 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-05-20 14:48 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-18 14:18 ` Alex Schroeder
2002-05-18 6:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2002-05-19 19:44 ` Robert J. Chassell
2002-05-20 14:40 ` Mario Lang
2002-05-20 21:13 ` Colin Walters
2002-05-17 19:28 ` Richard Stallman
2002-05-15 0:13 ` Werner LEMBERG
2002-05-15 4:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
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