From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:39:11 +0000 Message-ID: <87ejcwq7eo.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199570130 11222 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 21:55:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:55:30 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 22:55:50 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JBGza-0005N9-9O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:55:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBGz3-0002xM-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:55:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBGyz-0002x9-SG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBGyf-0002jI-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBGye-0002jF-Rn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:54:48 -0500 Original-Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.214.224]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JBGyd-0002LD-3e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:54:48 -0500 Original-Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 23so1013316huc.1 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:54:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; bh=Nomc7Y6Ve49Xr3DV1nygaRUYapH1NCIsa8XvHfYlyi8=; b=fpnPD6ObinUKjhJvt+9MH5buCXPbPJXkVPrWmZqQFmctWDhfmkWlGPAMEhs02i4b6D0ox/xYU2Qe8hUlvdGeyA9YLZ3jTOg3Q0R/v14cBnmA7JvtOv1J68HPkYFB2WldjWVRCVfLHZ4r28hNBgjvt8VHogxbJsce/RB7DQCbELE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; b=tSpdFRuVkEV6ZQxCAKfw8r1pWJF1HqEEbUKoXvX8xU5n4/br+gTcLnA1I0yyBW+8IW4TewjilQt5+0/VUQzXmKoTOEvcghZa0jtaKlUDazwI4cqEb18UgW+r7fgaMcQ75MlhhZzog5QOH3aVj7E58L1tJMdeFxazslt0+slj3mI= Original-Received: by 10.78.137.7 with SMTP id k7mr21453063hud.68.1199569154027; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:39:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [81.157.28.72]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g12sm24196252nfb.27.2008.01.05.13.39.11 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:39:12 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CD0C2157977; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:39:11 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Fri, 4 Jan 2008 23:25:14 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86236 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: >> The good thing about bug-tracker web forms from a developer point of >> view isn't really that they're web, it's that they're *forms*. You can >> channel your users into identifying the platform they're running on, >> the preceived bug severity, and half a dozen other search keys. > > If they're pure web, I doubt they'll be accepted by the hackers here, > who're accustomed to Emacs-quality interfaces. Whatever we decide on > must be usable from a normal Emacs buffer. I'm surprised nobody mentionned org.el in this discussion yet. >From Org's manual: Org-mode is a mode for keeping notes, maintaining TODO lists, and doing project planning with a fast and effective plain-text system. Instead of switching to a full-blown bug tracking system, I think we could first try to improve the way information is currently stored in emacs/etc/TODO or emacs/etc/PROBLEMS or related files[1]. For now, these two files use outline-mode. Since org-mode is really "outline-mode made (more) useful", the upgrade is straightforward. Here's how Org would help: 1. Org can be used as a *database*, since each item can be associated with pairs of property-value. Org provides very useful features to _visualize_ properties (info "(org)Column View") and to _search_ for items with specific properties (info "(org)Property searches"). 2. Org can easily cooperate with email based development. Linking to an email is just one keystroke away, should this link show the email via rmail, Gnus, or a webpage on Gmane. `report-emacs-bug' is structured enough to be easily converted into an Org entry. 3. org-mode is an Emacs mode, hence I suspect many Emacs developpers around there will love it (more than any bug tracking system...) 4. You can export Org files to HTML, letting everybody read them through a web browser. 5. Org files are plain text files, hence they are fully searchable. My point here is that using Org would gradually improve the way people work together without breaking anything in the current system. Notes: [1] Of course, having better TODO and PROBLEMS files does not help when it comes to let users send bug reports. But making things easier for the developers and making things easiers for the users are two distincts issues, which may be addressed with distinct tools. -- Bastien