From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Status of IPA patch? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:05:33 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87eiqvpyxe.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <4A807E29.1030405@gmail.com> <19072.33612.609778.383349@parhasard.net> <19091.42502.25570.15813@parhasard.net> <871vmz39dk.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <19095.20639.983609.638911@parhasard.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1251492629 17610 80.91.229.12 (28 Aug 2009 20:50:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:50:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Oleksandr Gavenko , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Aidan Kehoe Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 28 22:50:21 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Mh8Or-0005P7-88 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:50:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55608 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mh8Oq-0003iz-NE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:50:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mh6u0-0004ts-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:25 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Mh6tv-0004nt-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=55578 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Mh6tv-0004na-CY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:19 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp-out1.starman.ee ([85.253.0.3]:37189 helo=mx1.starman.ee) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Mh6tu-0001LT-RT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:14:19 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by Amavisd-New at mx1.starman.ee Original-Received: from mail.starman.ee (82.131.54.133.cable.starman.ee [82.131.54.133]) by mx1.starman.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F453F410C; Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:14:13 +0300 (EEST) In-Reply-To: <19095.20639.983609.638911@parhasard.net> (Aidan Kehoe's message of "Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:35:59 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:114781 Archived-At: > > > > The omission of those two was intentional, since U+20A7 is > > > > equivalent to t=CA=83 (note that that digraph doesn=E2=80=99t i= nclude the tie > > > > that would be necessary to have it as a phoneme distinct from /= t/ > > > > followed by /=CA=83/) and g is equivalent to U+0261 for the pur= poses of > > > > the IPA. > > > > I don=E2=80=99t understand why do you omit U+20A7 and U+0261 if they= exist in > > X-SAMPA and Kirshenbaum? > > The IPA standards (which X-SAMPA and Kirshenbaum build on) define _U+20= A7_ > and _U+0261_ as being equivalent to _a succession of U+0074 and U+0283_= , and > _U+0067_, respectively. The former two code points just represent > compatibility glyphs (with U+20A7 leading to needless confusion, since > people might reasonably believe that it meant the same as U+0074 U+2040 > U+0283, including the tie I mention above). Since these are three most popular ways to represent this sound, I think we should support all of them: 1. a ligature =CA=A7 (U+02A7) 2. two symbols t=CA=83 (U+0074 U+0283) 3. two symbols joined with a tie t=CD=A1=CA=83 (U+0074 U+2040 U+0283) This can be done with a non-deterministic quail guidance string displaying a menu of possible variants. > Kirshenbaum mentions ASCII g as mapping to both U+0067 and U+0261 witho= ut > comment. Including both would not add to the semantic range of what the= user > can input (in terms of the IPA), and would again be needlessly confusin= g > (the user types g; wonders if 0 or 1 is more appropriate; when it doesn= =E2=80=99t > actually matter, I agree there is no sense to create a menu of both U+0067 and U+0261, so we should keep only the IPA symbol U+0261, because U+0067 is easy to type anyway without an input method. > and U+0067 is always more certain to be preserved by software). The problem of preserving by software is not specific to U+0261, but rather to the most of IPA symbols. --=20 Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/