Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Óscar Fuentes]

Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with Emacs
dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org-mode, and
so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources with
the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.

Thanks.

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Jan Böcker]

On 13.04.2010 22:15, Óscar Fuentes wrote:
> Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with Emacs
> dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org-mode, and
> so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources with
> the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
> this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.

AFAIK that happens whenever a new major version of emacs is released,
which is very infrequently.

Even if the next version of emacs would be just around the corner, you'd
just find yourself in the situation of using a very outdated version
again within a few weeks.

However, deployment across several machines can be easy with git. My
~/.emacs.d is a git repository which contains all my emacs configuration
and elisp library files. I have added org-mode as a submodule here, so
after running git pull && git submodule update on another machine,
everything is in sync again.

I use the org-babel approach to emacs configuration. In my startup.org,
the first toplevel subtree contains code that finds out what machine it
is running on by looking at the hostname and sets the variable
jb/system. I have one toplevel subtree for common configuration and two
for settings specific to one of my two machines.

- Jan

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Eric Schulte]

Jan Böcker <jan.boecker@jboecker.de> writes:

> On 13.04.2010 22:15, Óscar Fuentes wrote:
>> Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with Emacs
>> dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org-mode, and
>> so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources with
>> the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
>> this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.
>
> AFAIK that happens whenever a new major version of emacs is released,
> which is very infrequently.
>

If this is the case, then should we start pushing new versions of
Org-mode to the Emacs development repository at every *Org-mode* version
bumb, rather than at every Emacs version bump?

-- Eric

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Eric Schulte wrote:

> Jan Böcker <jan.boecker@jboecker.de> writes:
>
>> On 13.04.2010 22:15, Óscar Fuentes wrote:
>>> Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with  
>>> Emacs
>>> dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org- 
>>> mode, and
>>> so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources  
>>> with
>>> the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
>>> this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.
>>
>> AFAIK that happens whenever a new major version of emacs is released,
>> which is very infrequently.
>>
>
> If this is the case, then should we start pushing new versions of
> Org-mode to the Emacs development repository at every *Org-mode*  
> version
> bumb, rather than at every Emacs version bump?


In principle, this is the idea.  Before 6.33 I pretty much pushed  
every Org-mode
release to Emacs.  At that point, Emacs went into feature freeze for  
another release
(23.2, I believe), and therefore I had to stop updating.

Now it is time to get back into this - but I have not done it due to  
time
constraints.  It is not trival to push our changes to Emacs.

- Emacs now uses bzr, which I am not familar with.  I have installed bzr
   and pulled the Emacs trunk onto my machine - but I still need to test
   if I can actually commit using that setup.
   I wish Emacs had chosen git, because this is what I know reasonably  
well
   now, and because git is, from what I can tell, better.

- There are a lot of issues that need to be taken care of.
   1. The Emacs developers regularly make global changes o all code in  
Emacs,
      to make use of new features or to implement new conventions.
      I try to merge all these changes into my development version.   
Sometimes
      this is not possible, because the changes the Emacs developers  
introduce
      will not work for older versions of Emacs (like Emacs 21 or 22).
      Example: interactive-p and called-interactively.
   2. Because I am not as good with version control as I would like to  
be
      handwork has to be done, and I have been burned in the past  
several times
      because my changes reverted some changes made inside Emacs.   
This is a
      psychological barrier for me to go ahead and make the next update.

Nevertheless, I am planning to update Emacs again - but I am not sure
exactly when I will find the time.

If there is a volunteer who is willing to take charge of the
synchronization with Emacs, this would be absolutely great.  But it
would have to be a dedicated and careful person, who is willing to
patiently work through the issues.

- Carsten

>
> -- Eric
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

- Carsten

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Ian Barton]

On 13/04/10 22:57, Jan Böcker wrote:
> On 13.04.2010 22:15, Óscar Fuentes wrote:
>> Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with Emacs
>> dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org-mode, and
>> so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources with
>> the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
>> this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.
>
> AFAIK that happens whenever a new major version of emacs is released,
> which is very infrequently.
>
> Even if the next version of emacs would be just around the corner, you'd
> just find yourself in the situation of using a very outdated version
> again within a few weeks.
>
> However, deployment across several machines can be easy with git. My
> ~/.emacs.d is a git repository which contains all my emacs configuration
> and elisp library files. I have added org-mode as a submodule here, so
> after running git pull&&  git submodule update on another machine,
> everything is in sync again.
>
> I use the org-babel approach to emacs configuration. In my startup.org,
> the first toplevel subtree contains code that finds out what machine it
> is running on by looking at the hostname and sets the variable
> jb/system. I have one toplevel subtree for common configuration and two
> for settings specific to one of my two machines.
>

If you dont need machine specific configuration, you can use Dropbox. 
Like Jan I use org-babel and put all my configuration in .emacs.d in my 
Dropbox folder. I create a symink from ~/.emacs.d to ~/Dropbox/.emacs.d 
and my org setup is maintained all the computers where I have Dropbox 
installed. YoU can do the same thing with Ubuntu One.

Ian.

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Eric Schulte]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Eric Schulte wrote:
[...]
>>
>> If this is the case, then should we start pushing new versions of
>> Org-mode to the Emacs development repository at every *Org-mode*
>> version
>> bumb, rather than at every Emacs version bump?
>
>
> In principle, this is the idea.  Before 6.33 I pretty much pushed
> every Org-mode release to Emacs.  At that point, Emacs went into
> feature freeze for another release (23.2, I believe), and therefore I
> had to stop updating.
>
> Now it is time to get back into this - but I have not done it due to
> time constraints.  It is not trival to push our changes to Emacs.
>
> - Emacs now uses bzr, which I am not familar with.  I have installed bzr
>   and pulled the Emacs trunk onto my machine - but I still need to test
>   if I can actually commit using that setup.
>   I wish Emacs had chosen git, because this is what I know reasonably
> well
>   now, and because git is, from what I can tell, better.
>

I think it's safe to say that git is better than bzr (significantly
faster and more mature).  From what I could glean panning through the
emacs-dev mailing archives, the *only* reason that Emacs now uses bzr
over git is because bzr is officially part of the GNU ecosystem.

> - There are a lot of issues that need to be taken care of.
>   1. The Emacs developers regularly make global changes o all code in
> Emacs,
>      to make use of new features or to implement new conventions.
>      I try to merge all these changes into my development version.
> Sometimes
>      this is not possible, because the changes the Emacs developers
> introduce
>      will not work for older versions of Emacs (like Emacs 21 or 22).
>      Example: interactive-p and called-interactively.

for what it's worth, I've been tracking the Emacs development version
(updating ~1/week) and I haven't noticed incompatibilities or problems.

> 
>   2. Because I am not as good with version control as I would like to
> be handwork has to be done, and I have been burned in the past several
> times because my changes reverted some changes made inside Emacs.
> This is a psychological barrier for me to go ahead and make the next
> update.
>
> Nevertheless, I am planning to update Emacs again - but I am not sure
> exactly when I will find the time.
>

I think one approach may be to perform all of the merging against the
git mirror of the Emacs repo (git://repo.or.cz/emacs.git), and then
there should be an easy way to /git fast export/ /bzr fast import/ the
changes over from the git mirror to the bar repo.

>
> If there is a volunteer who is willing to take charge of the
> synchronization with Emacs, this would be absolutely great.  But it
> would have to be a dedicated and careful person, who is willing to
> patiently work through the issues.
>

I wish I could help, but I honestly don't have the time such a
commitment would require.

Best -- Eric

>
> - Carsten
>
>>
>> -- Eric
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
> - Carsten

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Carsten Dominik]

On Apr 13, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Óscar Fuentes wrote:

> Currently I'm using 6.33x, which is the version that comes with Emacs
> dev source code. I'll like to use a more recent version of org-mode,  
> and
> so I ask if there are plans for upgrading Emacs' org-mode sources with
> the current release. If not, I'll use org-mode git sources, although
> this would complicate a bit the deployment across several machines.

I just updated the Emacs bzr repository to org-mode 6.35i.  Now lets  
hope that everything went OK - this was my first commit through bzr,  
and a BIG one.

- Carsten

Re: Plans for synching with Emacs dev sources?

[Óscar Fuentes]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> I just updated the Emacs bzr repository to org-mode 6.35i.  Now lets
> hope that everything went OK - this was my first commit through bzr,
> and a BIG one.

Thanks! I'll start using it right now and report back any issues.