emdash and endash

emdash and endash

[Samuel Wales]

1 dash: - 2 -- 3 ---
1 dash: - 2 – 3 —

When I write in ASCII, I notate emdash like "--".  I think this is standard.
But in HTML export, that is an endash.

I never use "---" in ASCII.  Is there a way to make "--"
export as emdash in order to be consistent with ASCII?

I wonder if we could control this with a variable.  Perhaps
with the variable set, \-- can be an endash and -- can be an
emdash, or something like that.

Thanks.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic:
  http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-forces_9182.html
I support the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI)
===
I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV paper.

Re: emdash and endash

[Chris Malone]

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For what its worth, "--" is an endash in LaTeX as well.
On Apr 17, 2011 11:04 PM, "Samuel Wales" <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1 dash: - 2 -- 3 ---
> 1 dash: - 2 – 3 —
>
> When I write in ASCII, I notate emdash like "--". I think this is
standard.
> But in HTML export, that is an endash.
>
> I never use "---" in ASCII. Is there a way to make "--"
> export as emdash in order to be consistent with ASCII?
>
> I wonder if we could control this with a variable. Perhaps
> with the variable set, \-- can be an endash and -- can be an
> emdash, or something like that.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Samuel
>
> --
> The Kafka Pandemic:
>
http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/welcome-to-kafka-pandemic-two-forces_9182.html
> I support the Whittemore-Peterson Institute (WPI)
> ===
> I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MRV
paper.
>

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Re: emdash and endash

[Samuel Wales]

Interesting.

However, unlike Org, Latex is not commonly exported to ASCII, commonly
copied without exporting to ASCII, commonly used as an organizing
system with ASCII pasted in, or multitargeted to ASCII (by copying and
export) and other formats, is it?  Or is it?  (Asking, not
rhetorical.)

Re: emdash and endash

[Ben Finney]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> 1 dash: - 2 -- 3 ---
> 1 dash: - 2 – 3 —
>
> When I write in ASCII, I notate emdash like "--".  I think this is
> standard.

I think not. I see many (non-Org) ASCII documents that distinguish a
notional em dash from en dash by different number of hyphens, as in your
first list.

> I never use "---" in ASCII. Is there a way to make "--" export as
> emdash in order to be consistent with ASCII?

“Consistent with ASCII”? ASCII has neither en dash nor em dash, so it's
not ASCII that you're wanting to be consistent with. You're referring to
conventions that attempt to preserve Unicode characters in ASCII.

-- 
 \       “… whoever claims any right that he is unwilling to accord to |
  `\             his fellow-men is dishonest and infamous.” —Robert G. |
_o__)           Ingersoll, _The Liberty of Man, Woman and Child_, 1877 |
Ben Finney

Re: emdash and endash

[Samuel Wales]

On 2011-04-17, Ben Finney <ben+emacs@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> I think not. I see many (non-Org) ASCII documents that distinguish a
> notional em dash from en dash by different number of hyphens, as in your
> first list.

Like this---really?  Or --- this?  It does look, however, as if people
use different standards.  I am not suggesting that the default be
changed.

> “Consistent with ASCII”? ASCII has neither en dash nor em dash, so it's
> not ASCII that you're wanting to be consistent with. You're referring to
> conventions that attempt to preserve Unicode characters in ASCII.

Quite right.  Of course, some conventions -- this one included
(or--arguably uglier but many favor it--this one) -- began before
Unicode.

Re: emdash and endash

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On Mon, Apr 18 2011, Samuel Wales wrote:

> On 2011-04-17, Ben Finney <ben+emacs@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> I think not. I see many (non-Org) ASCII documents that distinguish a
>> notional em dash from en dash by different number of hyphens, as in your
>> first list.
>
> Like this---really?  Or --- this?  It does look, however, as if people
> use different standards.  I am not suggesting that the default be
> changed.
>
>> “Consistent with ASCII”? ASCII has neither en dash nor em dash, so it's
>> not ASCII that you're wanting to be consistent with. You're referring to
>> conventions that attempt to preserve Unicode characters in ASCII.
>
> Quite right.  Of course, some conventions -- this one included
> (or--arguably uglier but many favor it--this one) -- began before
> Unicode.

A very minor two cents…

I think this springs much earlier typographical conventions: the
grammatical dash is sometimes represented by an en-dash with spaces on
either side, and sometimes by an em-dash with no spaces. Perhaps a US/UK
thing? But I don't think that anyone uses an em-dash with spaces on
either side, and I think the convention of two ASCII dashes standing for
an en-dash (and three for em-) probably still makes the most sense…

Re: emdash and endash

[Matt Lundin]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> 1 dash: - 2 -- 3 ---
> 1 dash: - 2 – 3 —
>
> When I write in ASCII, I notate emdash like "--".  I think this is standard.

To ensure consistency of export, I have gotten in the habit of using
three hyphens for the emdash in ASCII---even in mail.

FWIW, Wikipedia suggests this is acceptable:

,----[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash ]
| When an actual em dash is unavailable—as in the ASCII character set—a
| double ("--") or triple hyphen-minus ("---") is used.
`----

Of course, a line in Wikipedia does not a standard make. :)

Best,
Matt

Re: emdash and endash

[Ben Finney]

Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:

> To ensure consistency of export, I have gotten in the habit of using
> three hyphens for the emdash in ASCII---even in mail.

I just write the characters – choosing the right one for my purpose – in
Unicode. It's already the third millennium of our calendar — we can
expect Unicode support, and harangue those who haven't joined us in the
international village yet.

-- 
 \     “Teach a man to make fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a |
  `\       man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.” |
_o__)                                                 —John A. Hrastar |
Ben Finney

Re: emdash and endash

[Christian Moe]

On 4/18/11 2:19 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Matt Lundin<mdl@imapmail.org>  writes:
>
>> To ensure consistency of export, I have gotten in the habit of using
>> three hyphens for the emdash in ASCII---even in mail.
>
> I just write the characters – choosing the right one for my purpose – in
> Unicode. It's already the third millennium of our calendar — we can
> expect Unicode support, and harangue those who haven't joined us in the
> international village yet.
>

Indeed so. But when using a fixed-width font, "--" and "---" are a lot 
easier to distinguish from "-" than are "–" and "—".

cm