From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Mac OS-compatible ports (was: C-g crash in C-x C-f (OSX Lion)) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:22:16 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87ehvkdgfr.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> References: <9E637EAB-A0C5-421B-9CCA-71C41442AF52@gmail.com> <87ipl7zaea.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87sjkbib14.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d3baui4b.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87mxacqlg4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwg3pfy4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739c2dscy.fsf@lifelogs.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325337777 1028 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2011 13:22:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:22:57 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 31 14:22:52 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rgyta-0000FD-CT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:22:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49672 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RgytZ-0003nZ-Re for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:22:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37911) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RgytW-0003nS-JR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:22:43 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RgytV-0004pa-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:22:42 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:57008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RgytU-0004pJ-NJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:22:40 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RgytP-00004y-NG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:22:35 +0100 Original-Received: from c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([76.28.40.19]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:22:35 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:22:35 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:79QcvfLIz2a6m/fg4Z5w+Jnp8VQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147094 Archived-At: (changing the thread subject, we've drifted off-topic long enough) On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:12:58 +0900 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: YM> When I tried the GNUstep port some time ago, it was quite YM> unsatisfactory. I thought it might be only for me and the problem YM> of the GNUstep version I tried or because of my configuration. So I YM> asked your GNUstep version/configuration because I took it for YM> granted that those who are backing the GNUstep port at least have YM> experience of its use, otherwise it looked so irresponsible to me. I understand and apologize I was not clearer. YM> I even think that pushing software that is far from usable only YM> because it is for GNUstep might result in lowering the YM> image/evaluation of GNUstep itself and do harm for the GNU project's YM> goal, because those who actually tried the GNUstep port will feel YM> disappointed. I agree with your statement, but we're not "pushing" the NS port only because it's for GNUstep. It's quite usable on Mac OS X. I said that "in its defense" it is compatible with GNUstep by using the Cocoa API, which your port isn't. So, to make the current situation clear, the Mac OS port choice is between: 1) NS port: Cocoa API, works on Mac OS X with some issues, compatible with GNUstep and can work there (it needs lots of work though). Apple has repeatedly stated Cocoa is the preferred API for Mac OS X developers, especially for new software. 2) your Carbon-based port: works on Mac OS X well, can't be compatible with GNUstep. Apple has not been clear about Carbon's future, even though Carbon seems to be well entrenched at this point. 3) Aquamacs: I don't know if it uses Cocoa, how its author feels about inclusion, or whether it's fundamentally different from (1) or (2) 4) Other ports? I don't know of any. 5) A brand new port. Given those choices, the NS port seems like the best choice for inclusion in GNU Emacs, which is the status quo. Are any of the facts I've presented inaccurate? I have great respect for the work you've done with your Mac port, and I hope you don't see this discussion as an attempt to diminish it. Ted