From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nix Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tabs are ready? -> Let us give a definition of tabs. Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:29:26 +0000 Message-ID: <87ehtyyl09.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> References: <4F2E5D33.6020406@gmx.at> <4F2E8185.4080706@gmx.at> <4F2EC768.4050603@gmx.at> <4F2FAD31.9040702@gmx.at> <877h00yq7z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <871uq7zw5c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k43t1mm7.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87vcnbe07s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1329136200 8056 80.91.229.3 (13 Feb 2012 12:30:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:30:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , martin rudalics , PJ Weisberg , Alin Soare , Emacs Dev To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 13 13:29:58 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwv2a-0004wq-Ee for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 13:29:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46648 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwv2a-0002Lk-0b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:29:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:48105) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwv2U-0002LY-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:29:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwv2O-0007wn-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:29:50 -0500 Original-Received: from icebox.esperi.org.uk ([81.187.191.129]:52147 helo=mail.esperi.org.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rwv2O-0007uy-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:29:44 -0500 Original-Received: from esperi.org.uk (nix@spindle.srvr.nix [192.168.14.15]) by mail.esperi.org.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q1DCTQCw012098; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:29:26 GMT Original-Received: (from nix@localhost) by esperi.org.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q1DCTQjh006376; Mon, 13 Feb 2012 12:29:26 GMT Emacs: why choose between a word processor and a Lisp interpreter when you could have neither instead? In-Reply-To: <87vcnbe07s.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:06:31 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-URT-Metrics: spindle 1060; Body=6 Fuz1=6 Fuz2=6 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 81.187.191.129 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148541 Archived-At: On 13 Feb 2012, Stephen J. Turnbull verbalised: > Nix writes: > > > (The problem is simple: if a buffer and its frame *both* declare a > > variable to be 'local', which takes precedence? There is probably > > code that depends on *each* taking precedence, so any answer will > > be wrong.) > > I've not seen complaints about this in re: XEmacs specifiers where the > default precedence is window beats buffer beats frame beats global > beats baked-in-code-fallback. Yeah, but horrible though specifiers are, at least they don't interfere with normal variable lookup, which both has to remain consistent with how it used to be (or break the world) *and* is time-critical. Calls to 'specifier-instance' just don't have the same criticality. > (Of course that may be because people > who need a different precedence use the DOMAIN parameter to > `specifier-instance' -- but AFAIK only Ben Wing and I know that it > exists. *You* might, but who else would? :-) Guilty :) I found it useful to use one set of colours on a TTY and another in X... > ISTM, that the question arises in Emacs because the *-local variables > never had a different API from ordinary variable reference, so > everybody just assumed it would DTRT for them. Yep. However, I do think the Emacs approach is preferable *if* you can work the wrinkles out: it's less irregular and more transparent. Nobody gets confused about local variables the way everyone does about specifiers. Someone really should sit down with *-local variable precedence and give it a good formal backing the way specifiers (sort of) got one. We already have several layers of local variable: if one works, N should work in an unsurprising fashion once the semantics are actually nailed down. But it does mean you have to nail the semantics down first rather than whapping in something that sort of works in the usual Emacs fashion :PPP (note the careful absence of actors here: *I'm* not doing it anytime soon! But the mythical impersonal infinite-in-capacity 'someone' perhaps should.) -- NULL && (void)