From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dustin Hemmerling Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Issues with emacs Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:47:21 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: <87ehp255jq.fsf@carbomb.basho.net> References: <87bokbb4zw.fsf@gnu.org> <83086e1d-d66a-4e0c-95a7-92d10a6de7e7@f8g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <87r4t3krun.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340733026 8826 80.91.229.3 (26 Jun 2012 17:50:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:50:26 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 26 19:50:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SjZuD-00064T-N0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:50:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34853 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SjZuD-0004Fu-Lv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:50:25 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!newsfeed.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 32 Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="xaTVk98PlNYmz2lv9HNVsA"; logging-data="28884"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/+sNIdLHAtztDL6haDFv4Gx+1QiTClHeU=" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:63IszE4CF1ABHWzPKD0xsdhBuys= sha1:sdjbC9QDmet9tmLh0ihU0GO7MNM= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:193089 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85484 Archived-At: notbob writes: > On 2012-06-26, Tom wrote: > > >> But it's also a possible that a skilled developer could make a >> permanent living from developing Emacs features. > > Does emacs REALLY need MORE features!? It's already so complex, now, > as to seem almost unfathomable to many. What emacs needs is some > refining, perhaps even some simplification. I use slrn cuz it's much > easier to follow, use, and config than gnus, even though they're > basically the same utility. Another thing that can't hurt is better > documentation. The only thing more arcane and vague than the official > emacs manual are those geeky man pages. One could also make some > money off documentation. I paid hard cash for the emacs O'Reilly books > and consider it money well spent. In fact, I need to buy the 3rd > edition and probably will. > > nb I'm glad to hear you had success with the O'Reilly book, because I had the exact opposite experience. I found it totally superficial compared to both the official Emacs and Elisp Info manuals, outdated, and far below O'Reilly's often very meagre standards. I read my copy at the library, because I wouldn't pay hard, soft, cold, or hot cash for anything even tangentially connected to esr. The integrated manuals and the self-documenting features are some of my favourite features of Emacs, personally. -- Dustin Hemmerling.