From: Thierry Volpiatto <thierry.volpiatto@gmail.com>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Andreas Schwab' <schwab@linux-m68k.org>,
'Mathias Dahl' <mathias.dahl@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unuseful keybindings
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 07:32:23 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87ehimeemg.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5D7D686F0451473081716BAAE7264CC6@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 18 Dec 2012 16:27:46 -0800")
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> Can't you just rebind these keys? I mean, you would
>> have to do that anyway, to use them for your purposes, right?
>
> Yes, but the fact that users can do that is never a good enough reason _on its
> own_ for Emacs Dev to sacrifice a particular key sequence for a default binding.
>
> For one thing, the very fact that there exists a default key binding sometimes
> dissuades libraries from binding the key sequence, because some user will holler
> bloody hell that the library steps on a default key binding, even if using the
> library is a voluntary act, and even if the user can override the library
> binding.
>
> No, there is nothing wrong with a user or a library doing that, but some people
> overly respect what they see as the established order, even though Emacs points
> out in its doc that you are free to customize etc. Somehow, default key
> bindings can tend, for some people, to take on a sacred aura.
>
> An additional rationale was given in this case, however, I believe. IIRC
> (excuse me if I remember incorrectly), this was it: many people use it outside
> Emacs for the same (or a similar) thing.
>
> I find that particular rationale quite weak, if it stands alone. Yes, it has
> _some_ merit, but there can be much stronger, internal-consistency or
> user-behavior reasons for Emacs to bind a given key sequence by default.
>
> For one thing, a key such as `f11' is repeatable, so it is preferable not to
> waste it on a command/action that is not repeatable by just holding down the
> key. Most possible key sequences (e.g. `C-x r l') are not repeatable, and we
> should make best use of those that are. Repeatable keys are a scarce resource,
> to be treasured and put to wise use.
>
> We first went down this silly path when we bound `f3' and `f4' - not too long
> ago. That was a big mistake, IMHO. Or was `f10' prior?
>
> Well, you could even argue that the first such abuse was binding `f1', but there
> are a lot more people who know and use `f1' for help outside Emacs than there
> are that use `f11'. Plus, `f1' is precisely for getting help. There is a much
> stronger case to be made for sacrificing `f1' than `f3', `f4', `f10', or `f11',
> IMO.
>
> It used to be that Emacs made an effort to stay away from binding function keys.
> Alas, that boat sailed long ago.
1+
--
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-12-19 6:32 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-12-18 13:00 Unuseful keybindings Thierry Volpiatto
2012-12-18 13:36 ` Andreas Schwab
2012-12-18 14:48 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2012-12-18 16:58 ` Sam Steingold
2012-12-18 19:30 ` Mathias Dahl
2012-12-18 19:37 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2012-12-22 3:22 ` Chong Yidong
2012-12-22 4:39 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-22 5:09 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-22 21:24 ` Sebastien Vauban
2012-12-22 21:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-22 22:46 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-22 23:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-23 0:45 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 1:07 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-23 1:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2012-12-23 1:54 ` advertizing keyboard macros better [was: Unuseful keybindings] Drew Adams
2012-12-23 2:10 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-23 9:29 ` Unuseful keybindings Juri Linkov
2012-12-23 16:55 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-26 14:32 ` Kevin Rodgers
2012-12-26 22:21 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-27 3:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-12-23 14:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-23 14:57 ` Jambunathan K
2012-12-23 16:52 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 17:47 ` Jambunathan K
2012-12-23 18:44 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 19:36 ` Jambunathan K
2012-12-23 20:25 ` Jambunathan K
2012-12-23 21:04 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-24 9:35 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-24 13:02 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-24 14:13 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 17:03 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 17:33 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-23 18:51 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 20:53 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-12-23 21:13 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-24 21:43 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 21:25 ` Andreas Schwab
2012-12-24 9:39 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-23 17:58 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-12-23 18:42 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 0:19 ` Mathias Dahl
2012-12-23 0:55 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-23 9:32 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-23 10:37 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-23 10:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-12-23 11:22 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-22 22:28 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-22 7:42 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2012-12-22 8:23 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-23 9:31 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-24 10:29 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-24 17:10 ` Juri Linkov
2012-12-29 5:57 ` Chong Yidong
2013-01-10 19:17 ` Sam Steingold
2013-01-10 19:13 ` Sam Steingold
2013-01-10 22:38 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-01-11 0:31 ` Juri Linkov
2013-01-11 1:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-01-11 9:58 ` Juri Linkov
2013-01-11 14:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-01-11 18:26 ` chad
2013-01-12 0:50 ` Juri Linkov
2013-01-12 10:03 ` Jan Djärv
2013-01-13 10:19 ` Juri Linkov
2013-01-13 11:19 ` Jan Djärv
2012-12-19 0:27 ` Drew Adams
2012-12-19 6:32 ` Thierry Volpiatto [this message]
2012-12-19 16:43 ` Leo
2012-12-18 13:40 ` Xue Fuqiao
2012-12-18 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-12-18 17:49 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2012-12-18 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
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