Re: Documentation on the command-line?

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Emanuel Berg]

Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> FYI.  That should get you the Emacs manual, not the
> FAQ.  There may be something awry with your Emacs
> installation.
>
> info "Emacs FAQ"
>
> Should get you the FAQ.

(I suppose this was intended for gnu.emacs.help?)

Are you sure it is Emacs and not info?

I never used info so I can't tell you if it works OK or
not. But I did use Emacs (it happened).

But yes: both info emacs and info "Emacs FAQ" gets the
Emacs FAQ (identical stuff).

-- 
underground experts united:
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Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Robert Thorpe]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:
>
>> FYI.  That should get you the Emacs manual, not the
>> FAQ.  There may be something awry with your Emacs
>> installation.
>>
>> info "Emacs FAQ"
>>
>> Should get you the FAQ.
>
> (I suppose this was intended for gnu.emacs.help?)
>
> Are you sure it is Emacs and not info?

It's not in Emacs, it looks like the installation of info manuals is wrong.

> But yes: both info emacs and info "Emacs FAQ" gets the
> Emacs FAQ (identical stuff).

What happens if you do "C-h i m Emacs RET" in Emacs?  If it gives you
the Emacs manual then your info files are installed correctly and
stand-alone "info" is the problem.  If it gives you the Emacs FAQ then
your Emacs related info files aren't installed properly.

I know that in Debian they consider the Emacs documentation to be
"non-free" because of a clause of the GNU Free Documentation License.
That means you have to install the Emacs info file from a "non-free"
repository.  I always assumed that applied to the FAQ too though.

BR,
Robert Thorpe

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Emanuel Berg]

Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> It's not in Emacs, it looks like the installation of
> info manuals is wrong.

Yes, I assume most software come with documentation for
the man/less (Emacs [wo]man mode etc.), info, and
possible other tools around to access it (even .html
pages for whatever browser) and that this doesn't come
with the browser tools themselves (except for how to
use the very tools :)). So it is not in Emacs but it is
Emacs.

>> But yes: both info emacs and info "Emacs FAQ" gets
>> the Emacs FAQ (identical stuff).
>
> What happens if you do "C-h i m Emacs RET" in Emacs?

Of course, I don't get it there either. I get:

Emacs FAQ
Emacs-w3m
Emacs-w3m-ja

(Gosh, bet you didn't know I speak Japanese? Just like
Logan, nobody bothered asking. Gedan mawashu geri -
okidoki!)

> I know that in Debian they consider the Emacs
> documentation to be "non-free" because of a clause of
> the GNU Free Documentation License.  That means you
> have to install the Emacs info file from a "non-free"
> repository.  I always assumed that applied to the FAQ
> too though.

Aha, that explains it. Yeah, I remember I had to
install the gcc documentation (gcc-doc) explicitly for,
I guess, the same reason.

Yeah, what is the reason?

In /etc/apt/sources.list, put for example:

deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib

But, what is the Emacs pack called? There is no emacs-doc.

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underground experts united:
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Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Robert Thorpe]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:
...
> Aha, that explains it. Yeah, I remember I had to
> install the gcc documentation (gcc-doc) explicitly for,
> I guess, the same reason.
>
> Yeah, what is the reason?

Most free-software/open-source licenses require someone passing on the
code to pass on the license. The GNU Free Documentation License als
requires them to include a little essay by RMS.  The Debian maintainers
objected to that and labeled GFDL a "non-free" license.  There was a
kerfuffle about it a few years ago.

> In /etc/apt/sources.list, put for example:
>
> deb http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib
> deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian/ jessie main non-free contrib
>
> But, what is the Emacs pack called? There is no emacs-doc.

emacs24-common-non-dfsg

It's worth installing the info files in my opinion.  The info browsers
(both Emacs' and the standalone one) are very fast and have useful
keybindings.  Emacs' info browser is integrated with the rest of Emacs.
In Emacs if you type C-h K then an Emacs keybinding it'll take you to
the place in the Info manual describing that binding.  That's a useful
adjunt to C-h k because the info manual describes several keys at once,
so you get to know similar keys.  C-h F does the same thing for
functions.  If you install the Glibc info files then if you type C-h S
on a C or C++ library function-name then it'll take you to that
function's documentation.  The same applies to other GCC based languages
if you use the mode for that language and install the info files.

Standalone "info -O tar" will take you to the part of the manual that
describes the command-line options.  That is, it behaves like a Man-page
and shows you command-line stuff first.

BR,
Robert Thorpe

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Bob Proulx]

Robert Thorpe wrote:
> Emanuel Berg writes:
> > Yeah, what is the reason?
> 
> Most free-software/open-source licenses require someone passing on the
> code to pass on the license. The GNU Free Documentation License als
> requires them to include a little essay by RMS.  The Debian maintainers
> objected to that and labeled GFDL a "non-free" license.  There was a
> kerfuffle about it a few years ago.

Not quite.  The main problem was Invariant Sections.  That was
specifically the problem with the Emacs documentation.

Rather than summarize let me refer you to the official statement of
why the GFDL is considered to be a non-free license.  Then I will
avoid errors in paraphrasing.

  http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_001

Bob

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> I'm trying to find the documentation of "fancyhdr",
> part of "Texlive", and I've tried man fancyhdr, info
> fancyhdr, show fancyhdr.
>
> but its failing on all of them.

Yes :)

man are the Unix manpages and they deal with Unix tools
as well as Unix C programming because of their common
history not to say symbiosis to this very day.

info was the documentation project of the GNU people,
it is hypertext just like the Internet (and the man
pages, but the man much less so) - the interface of
info is more bulky than the default for the man pages,
which is why those are preferred by most (not all)
people then and now. When the internet hit big, I would
suspect some steam went of the info project.

What is show?

There is a man page for Emacs, and 'info emacs' gets
you the Emacs FAQ. By the way, note how similar info
looks to Emacs. As for man (as a tool), it is an
interface to the pager less, I would think.

As for packages, the kind you install on your computer,
if you are on Debian or Ubuntu or some or their zillion
forks, you can get an idea with 'aptitude show' - I
wouldn't call this "documentation", though, but
sometimes good URLs and the like can be found.

> So how do I get the documentation for an emacs or a
> latex package to show on the command-line please?

With Emacs stuff, there is no reason to use the shell
for that, use the very elaborate
online-and-dynamic-and-associated help system (not on
paper, and immediately updated, and written next to the
code it relates to). But don't you know that already?!
If not, I have news for you :)

describe-function
describe-mode
describe-variable
etc. (For more: `C-h ?' for help-for-help)

Or hit `C-h k' and then whatever key - cool, isn't it?

For LaTeX, there is something called "TeX by Topic" as
well as the CLI tool tlmgr - go fish :)

--
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> I'm trying to find the documentation of "fancyhdr",
>> part of "Texlive", and I've tried man fancyhdr, info
>> fancyhdr, show fancyhdr.
>>
>> but its failing on all of them.
>
> Yes :)
>
> man are the Unix manpages and they deal with Unix tools
> as well as Unix C programming because of their common
> history not to say symbiosis to this very day.
>
> info was the documentation project of the GNU people,
> it is hypertext just like the Internet (and the man
> pages, but the man much less so) - the interface of
> info is more bulky than the default for the man pages,
> which is why those are preferred by most (not all)
> people then and now. When the internet hit big, I would
> suspect some steam went of the info project.
>
> What is show?

That’s actually a 'bash-alias' I've set up and this is the line -
╭────
│alias show='apt-cache show'
╰────
which shows a very descriptive description of the programme, giving
package size, homepage, etc. 
>
> There is a man page for Emacs, and 'info emacs' gets
> you the Emacs FAQ. By the way, note how similar info
> looks to Emacs. As for man (as a tool), it is an
> interface to the pager less, I would think.
>
> As for packages, the kind you install on your computer,
> if you are on Debian or Ubuntu or some or their zillion
> forks, you can get an idea with 'aptitude show' - I
> wouldn't call this "documentation", though, but
> sometimes good URLs and the like can be found.

Sounds very similar to "apt-cache show".
>
>> So how do I get the documentation for an emacs or a
>> latex package to show on the command-line please?
>
> With Emacs stuff, there is no reason to use the shell
> for that, use the very elaborate
> online-and-dynamic-and-associated help system (not on
> paper, and immediately updated, and written next to the
> code it relates to). But don't you know that already?!
> If not, I have news for you :)
>
> describe-function
> describe-mode
> describe-variable
> etc. (For more: `C-h ?' for help-for-help)
>
> Or hit `C-h k' and then whatever key - cool, isn't it?

I've never had any success with `C-h k' or similar, so I tend to use
"F1 v/k/whatever" which gets the same result. 
>
> For LaTeX, there is something called "TeX by Topic" as
> well as the CLI tool tlmgr - go fish :)
>
Yes I am on Debian testing, and a quick play shows that 'tlmgr' does
work even though everything in 'tex-live' was installed using the Debian
package manager, in fact, there was a major upgrade this morning.

Thanks
Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Sounds very similar to "apt-cache show"

Yes, I think the difference apart from some minor
differences in layout and presentation order is that
with 'aptitude show' you prompt the repos for the data,
so it is newer (sometimes). But apt-cache is on the
other hand faster and probably the data don't change
that much anyway.

> I've never had any success with `C-h k' or similar, so
> I tend to use "F1 v/k/whatever" which gets the same
> result.

OK, C-h is better I would say because then you won't
have to reach and move your hand from typing position
(and then back again), but as long as you get there I
guess.

> Yes I am on Debian testing, and a quick play shows
> that tlmgr' does work even though everything in
> 'tex-live' was installed using the Debian package
> manager, in fact, there was a major upgrade this
> morning.

Well, it would certainly such if those were in
conflict. Anyway, when you compile LaTeX often it says
it cannot find some file. Not one of your files, a
library or whatever. Then, try installing it with tlmgr
- most often it works! Before first usage (i.e. once
then never again) strike 'tlmgr init-usertree' (as a
normal user) - to populate a database or something to
the like, I suppose.

-- 
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Documentation on the command-line?

[Sharon Kimble]

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I'm trying to find the documentation of "fancyhdr", part of "Texlive",
and I've tried -
╭────
│man fancyhdr
│info fancyhdr
│show fancyhdr
╰────

but its failing on all of them.

So how do I get the documentation for an emacs or a latex package to
show on the command-line please?
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> I'm trying to find the documentation of "fancyhdr", part of "Texlive",
> and I've tried -
> ╭────
> │man fancyhdr
> │info fancyhdr
> │show fancyhdr
> ╰────
>
> but its failing on all of them.
>
> So how do I get the documentation for an emacs or a latex package to
> show on the command-line please?

If you've got texlive-doc (or similarly-named package) installed, the
texdoc command-line utility is what you want. It opens up the PDF
documentation for a package, which is arguably a really annoying way to
read documentation, but that's what Texlive comes with. So "texdoc
fancyhdr" might do it.

Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> I'm trying to find the documentation of "fancyhdr", part of "Texlive",
>> and I've tried -
>> ╭────
>> │man fancyhdr
>> │info fancyhdr
>> │show fancyhdr
>> ╰────
>>
>> but its failing on all of them.
>>
>> So how do I get the documentation for an emacs or a latex package to
>> show on the command-line please?
>
> If you've got texlive-doc (or similarly-named package) installed, the
> texdoc command-line utility is what you want. It opens up the PDF
> documentation for a package, which is arguably a really annoying way to
> read documentation, but that's what Texlive comes with. So "texdoc
> fancyhdr" might do it.
>
Thanks, "texdoc fancyhdr" opens up the documentation as a pdf file in
"atril" my default pdf reader. It works a treat, thanks :)

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: Documentation on the command-line?

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> If you've got texlive-doc (or similarly-named
> package) installed, the texdoc command-line utility
> is what you want. It opens up the PDF ...

Of course, it's TeX :) Haha, silly. There is a FOSS
project up for grabs.

-- 
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573