From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 21:20:22 +0800 Message-ID: <87egsejkrt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417785321 21700 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 13:15:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 13:15:21 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 14:15:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsj2-00016S-MK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:15:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50361 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsj2-0002IE-7p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 08:15:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60715) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsis-00023U-Vw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 08:15:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsil-0002C7-SS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 08:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:33227) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsil-0002BL-MR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 08:14:55 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xwsik-0000uK-PK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:14:54 +0100 Original-Received: from 61.149.185.27 ([61.149.185.27]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:14:54 +0100 Original-Received: from eric by 61.149.185.27 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:14:54 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 60 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 61.149.185.27 User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:c+Mh0t05GydAz1wqL7fnXwc0MBA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178915 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: joaotavora@gmail.com (João Távora) >> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 10:27:49 +0000 >> Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> As you pointed out, mentorship happens on emacs-devel and on >> bug-gnu-emacs. But also as you pointed out, a lot of effort goes into >> questions only tangentially related to Emacs. >> >> The proposed mentoring would be targeted at first time code >> contributions only and administered by anyone with a reasonably solid >> grasp of Emacs's and GNU's red tape. >> >> >From my (limited) perspective this is frequently channeled to Stefan, >> who is really good at it, but is possibly overloaded. >> >> So what is being proposed, or what at least what I understood from >> Phillip's message, is that a new broad guideline is added to the top of >> the contribution guide [1] reading something like: >> >> "If this is your first time contributing to Emacs, ask for a mentor on >> emacs-devel first. A mentor can be anyone who has contributed to Emacs >> at least once, and will guide you through the instructions [linked] >> below, as well as any extra documentation. He/she can also answer >> specific questions about copyright assignment, version control, >> changelogs, coding style, etc." > > OK, so how would this mentoring be different from what we have now? > Does it happen in private email instead of on the list? If it's still > on the list, do we formally tell people stay out of the > mentor/mentoree dialog and let the mentor alone handle that? Or is > the only difference that a specific person will step forward and say > he/she will be the mentor for a particular J.R. Hacker, and all the > rest should stay as it is today? > > IOW, I have a difficulty translating the above principles (with which > I agree) into practical steps that need to be made, to make the > procedure different from what it is now. Can you please clarify? A brief two cents to add to Phillip, who seems to be in exactly the same position as me: It would be nice to explicitly let posters know that they can ask someone for help with implementing a feature/squashing a bug. There's lots of helpful advice here and on emacs.help, but that's not quite the same as knowing that someone has committed (to some extent) to assisting you. "Mentoring", to me, also implies that the purpose of the process is, in large part, the education of the mentoreee. The above is totally contingent on someone having the time and patience to take on "students", and I think silence in response to a request for mentoring should be quite normal. I'd lean towards on-list discussions, with the assumption that most people will ignore them. Eric