From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:19:24 +0000 Message-ID: <87egs5ktdv.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87388mme16.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87a92u86wv.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418383217 21495 80.91.229.3 (12 Dec 2014 11:20:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 12 12:20:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOGY-0002lr-6z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 12:20:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56619 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOGX-0002ek-N5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:20:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51925) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOG0-0002UC-1v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:19:40 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOFv-0006bH-7P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:19:35 -0500 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:60816) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOFp-0006aB-VA; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 06:19:26 -0500 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOFp-0000Ca-DV; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:19:25 +0000 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1XzOFp-0000q3-3d; Fri, 12 Dec 2014 11:19:25 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87a92u86wv.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic \=\?utf-8\?Q\?Court\=C3\=A8s\=22'\?\= \=\?utf-8\?Q\?s\?\= message of "Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:20 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179883 Archived-At: Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> Asiidoc does do indexes, as does docbook. And, yes, multiple output >> formats. Seriously, almost everything does multiple output formats. > > OK. What about documentation-oriented markup (think @deffn, @deftp) and > cross-manual references? They don=E2=80=99t do that, do they? No. Asciidoc has a plugin mechanism (which I haven't used and can't vouch for), so it could be extended. Org-mode texinfo export may have this support, but I don't know. Both, of course, can do "pass-through", and drop code straight to the output format. Org-mode can pop out lisp and run it. Or it can eval code and put that into the output format. How does this work in texinfo? I've always wondered, with the emacs doc about things like this... -- Function: current-buffer This function returns the current buffer. (current-buffer) =E2=87=92 # Now, this describes `current-buffer'. But the real documentation for this is here: doc: /* Return the current buffer as a Lisp object. */ How do you include docstring from a lisp function or var in texinfo? >> Web pages and browsers can do anything at all. Here is a webpage which b= oots >> so linux and runs some of GNU > > I=E2=80=99ve heard of JavaScript, thank you ;-), but I=E2=80=99d rather (= 1) run code > that=E2=80=99s hosted locally, and (2) be able to use a JS-less browser i= f I > have to use a browser at all (I think it=E2=80=99s fair to assume that so= me > Emacs users would rather use emacs-w3m or eww.) Well, maybe once Emacs uses guile, we can run JS in eww. But in the same way that a webpage can do anything at all, a web browser written for Emacs can do anything at all, cause we can add lisp. > Leaving out cross-manual refs would be a big loss for GNU as a project > to develop a coherent system, because manuals would be left isolated. Go to the Emacs manual, and type "i", and "current-buffer". [No match]. Which is strange, because there is documentation for current-buffer, in the elips manual. So, the manuals already are isolated. The info index functionality is not really as rich as it seems. > To me, if replacing Texinfo and/or Info results in loss of functionality > at all, that=E2=80=99s a showstopper. I=E2=80=99m surprised alternative = systems are not > studied with that in mind. I have this great idea for a hypertext system. What it will do is have globally unique identifiers, so that it is possible to put cross-references between any two documents published using this hypertext system. I shall the cross references IRIs (for Info Resource Identifiers), and the whole system will be WWI (World-Wide Info). Are you with me? Phil