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* Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
       [not found] <CAAdUY-KDQ+V0Zgj4gvgi9bxf5A+O5guNw+M3042w4Qtz_55j=A@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2015-10-27 23:28 ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-10-27 23:31   ` John Wiegley
                     ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-10-27 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

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I'm trying to add some tests for features (.el source files) that are
completely devoid of them. So I welcome suggestions of elisp files that
have no tests whatsoever. I also welcome volunteers to help, of course.

Context:
Besides the fact that tests are a good idea, I think that having features
with no test file at all is measurably worse than having just one or two
tests.

When a source file has no corresponding test file, someone contributing to
it feels perfectly entitled to not create one. What's worse, even if they
did want to add a test, there's a chance they might be discouraged by this,
specially if they weren't yet sure how to implement the test.

So it is my opinion that adding tests to these unfortunate files would
provide a bit more benefit for the effort invested.

Best,
Artur

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-27 23:28 ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-10-27 23:31   ` John Wiegley
  2015-10-28 16:02   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: John Wiegley @ 2015-10-27 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

>>>>> Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

> When a source file has no corresponding test file, someone contributing to
> it feels perfectly entitled to not create one. What's worse, even if they
> did want to add a test, there's a chance they might be discouraged by this,
> specially if they weren't yet sure how to implement the test.
> 
> So it is my opinion that adding tests to these unfortunate files would
> provide a bit more benefit for the effort invested.

I'm inclined to agree, Artur.  Thank you for starting this initiative.

John



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-27 23:28 ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Artur Malabarba
  2015-10-27 23:31   ` John Wiegley
@ 2015-10-28 16:02   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2015-10-28 16:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bruce.connor.am; +Cc: emacs-devel

> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 23:28:46 +0000
> From: Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com>
> 
> So it is my opinion that adding tests to these unfortunate files would provide
> a bit more benefit for the effort invested. 

I completely agree.  Thanks in advance for doing this.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-27 23:28 ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Artur Malabarba
  2015-10-27 23:31   ` John Wiegley
  2015-10-28 16:02   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
  2015-10-28 20:15     ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-10-29  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-10-28 19:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm trying to add some tests for features (.el source files) that are
> completely devoid of them. So I welcome suggestions of elisp files
> that have no tests whatsoever. I also welcome volunteers to help, of
> course. 

Last year, I've started to write vc-tests.el. I have not enough
knowledge about vc to do it on my own, but I was enouraged by Eric
Raymond to do so. Unfortunately, he stopped to support me after a while,
so the work is stalled since then.

If somebody with more knowledge about vc than me would join that work, I
would be willing to continue. Could you help me with this? Other
volunteers?

In parallel, it might be useful to work on Bug#19548. As Glenn said, the
documentation lacks the changes which have been applied last year.

> Best, 
> Artur 

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
@ 2015-10-28 20:15     ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-10-29  7:46       ` Michael Albinus
  2015-10-29  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-10-28 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: emacs-devel

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On 28 Oct 2015 7:20 pm, "Michael Albinus" <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote:
> Last year, I've started to write vc-tests.el. I have not enough
> knowledge about vc to do it on my own, but I was enouraged by Eric
> Raymond to do so. Unfortunately, he stopped to support me after a while,
> so the work is stalled since then.

Still, did you get to push this partial progress?

> If somebody with more knowledge about vc than me would join that work, I
> would be willing to continue. Could you help me with this? Other
> volunteers?

I'm not a user of vc, but let us know your questions, maybe I can help with
some. Or maybe a vc user will jump in (this list is full of them ;-).
Really, don't be afraid to ask.

> In parallel, it might be useful to work on Bug#19548. As Glenn said, the
> documentation lacks the changes which have been applied last year.

Documentation is certainly another good way to help.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
  2015-10-28 20:15     ` Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-10-29  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
  2015-10-29  7:48       ` Michael Albinus
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-10-29  1:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus, Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

On 10/28/2015 09:20 PM, Michael Albinus wrote:

> Last year, I've started to write vc-tests.el. I have not enough
> knowledge about vc to do it on my own, but I was enouraged by Eric
> Raymond to do so. Unfortunately, he stopped to support me after a while,
> so the work is stalled since then.

I should be able to help, sometime. The tests already in place seem to 
work well enough, though, and we should strive to add more tests 
together with any bugfixes in VC that call for it.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-28 20:15     ` Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-10-29  7:46       ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-10-29  7:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com> writes:

> On 28 Oct 2015 7:20 pm, "Michael Albinus" <michael.albinus@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>> Last year, I've started to write vc-tests.el. I have not enough
>> knowledge about vc to do it on my own, but I was enouraged by Eric
>> Raymond to do so. Unfortunately, he stopped to support me after a while,
>> so the work is stalled since then.
>
> Still, did you get to push this partial progress? 

Everything which I had done that time is pushed to the repo.

>> If somebody with more knowledge about vc than me would join that work, I
>> would be willing to continue. Could you help me with this? Other
>> volunteers?
>
> I'm not a user of vc, but let us know your questions, maybe I can help
> with some. Or maybe a vc user will jump in (this list is full of them ;
> -). Really, don't be afraid to ask.

Will do.

>> In parallel, it might be useful to work on Bug#19548. As Glenn said, the
>> documentation lacks the changes which have been applied last year.
>
> Documentation is certainly another good way to help.

In this case it is important, because the behaviour of the functions
differ sometimes from what is documented, and I'm uncertain whom to
believe when asserting the test results. For the time being I have
accepted most of the results (modulo some few obvious errors, which I
did fix in vc-*.el), but maybe the checks are too weak, and there are
still some problems in vc-*.el, which are uncovered by this strategy of
vc-tests.el.

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-29  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-10-29  7:48       ` Michael Albinus
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-10-29  7:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 10/28/2015 09:20 PM, Michael Albinus wrote:
>
>> Last year, I've started to write vc-tests.el. I have not enough
>> knowledge about vc to do it on my own, but I was enouraged by Eric
>> Raymond to do so. Unfortunately, he stopped to support me after a while,
>> so the work is stalled since then.
>
> I should be able to help, sometime. The tests already in place seem to
> work well enough, though, and we should strive to add more tests
> together with any bugfixes in VC that call for it.

Thanks. Working on vc-tests.el has always been on my todo list since
then, but it got less priority over the time. I'll try to revive this
work.

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-10-29  7:46       ` Michael Albinus
@ 2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-07 19:26           ` You probably need a new maintainer for vc.el Eric S. Raymond
                             ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-11-07 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:

>>> If somebody with more knowledge about vc than me would join that work, I
>>> would be willing to continue. Could you help me with this? Other
>>> volunteers?
>>
>> I'm not a user of vc, but let us know your questions, maybe I can help
>> with some. Or maybe a vc user will jump in (this list is full of them ;
>> -). Really, don't be afraid to ask.
>
> Will do.

Reality check: I've asked more than a week ago, no response. Nobody
feels responsible for vc. vc-tests.el keeps stalled, unfortunately.

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* You probably need a new maintainer for vc.el
  2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
@ 2015-11-07 19:26           ` Eric S. Raymond
  2015-11-08  1:06           ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Kelvin White
                             ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Eric S. Raymond @ 2015-11-07 19:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de>:
> Reality check: I've asked more than a week ago, no response. Nobody
> feels responsible for vc. vc-tests.el keeps stalled, unfortunately.

Sorry. I'd like to give this time.  I can't.

I have a full-time job fixing Network Time Protocol now. Yes, the Core
Infrastructure Initative is actually *paying money* for this, and as
the project tech lead I have my hands full.

Sigh.  It needs to be done, the security issues with NTP are *severe*.
And I'm the right guy to do it.  But it means my other projects are
going to be neglected for a while.

You probably need to find a VC maintainer with more bandwidth available.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-07 19:26           ` You probably need a new maintainer for vc.el Eric S. Raymond
@ 2015-11-08  1:06           ` Kelvin White
  2015-11-08  2:18             ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-11-08  9:48             ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-08  2:16           ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-11-08  2:28           ` Dmitry Gutov
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Kelvin White @ 2015-11-08  1:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

In regards to testing, ERC has no tests at all so I will definitely
write those. As for vc... I am not sure if I can be of any help yet,
but I'm willing to give it a shot if you would like

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote:
> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes:
>
>>>> If somebody with more knowledge about vc than me would join that work, I
>>>> would be willing to continue. Could you help me with this? Other
>>>> volunteers?
>>>
>>> I'm not a user of vc, but let us know your questions, maybe I can help
>>> with some. Or maybe a vc user will jump in (this list is full of them ;
>>> -). Really, don't be afraid to ask.
>>
>> Will do.
>
> Reality check: I've asked more than a week ago, no response. Nobody
> feels responsible for vc. vc-tests.el keeps stalled, unfortunately.
>
> Best regards, Michael.
>
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-07 19:26           ` You probably need a new maintainer for vc.el Eric S. Raymond
  2015-11-08  1:06           ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Kelvin White
@ 2015-11-08  2:16           ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-11-08  2:26             ` Dmitry Gutov
  2015-11-08  2:28           ` Dmitry Gutov
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-11-08  2:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: emacs-devel

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On 7 Nov 2015 7:13 pm, "Michael Albinus" <michael.albinus@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> -). Really, don't be afraid to ask.
> >
> > Will do.
>
> Reality check: I've asked more than a week ago, no response.

Indeed, thanks for trying. Still, it didn't hurt to ask.
In fact, this eventually led to Eric bringing up the fact that vc needs a
new maintainer, so something good came out of it after all.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08  1:06           ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Kelvin White
@ 2015-11-08  2:18             ` Artur Malabarba
  2015-11-08  9:48             ` Michael Albinus
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Artur Malabarba @ 2015-11-08  2:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kelvin White; +Cc: emacs-devel

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On 8 Nov 2015 1:06 am, "Kelvin White" <kwhite@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> In regards to testing, ERC has no tests at all so I will definitely
> write those. As for vc... I am not sure if I can be of any help yet,
> but I'm willing to give it a shot if you would like

If erc has no tests, I recommend starting there. But don't hesitate to go
where the code takes you. ;-)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08  2:16           ` Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-11-08  2:26             ` Dmitry Gutov
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-11-08  2:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bruce.connor.am, Michael Albinus; +Cc: emacs-devel

On 11/08/2015 04:16 AM, Artur Malabarba wrote:

> In fact, this eventually led to Eric bringing up the fact that vc needs
> a new maintainer, so something good came out of it after all.

Eric hasn't been doing a lot of maintaining for quite a while.  See 'git 
log -- lisp/vc/'.

Also see lisp/vc/ in admin/MAINTAINERS.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
                             ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2015-11-08  2:16           ` Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-11-08  2:28           ` Dmitry Gutov
  2015-11-08  8:41             ` Michael Albinus
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-11-08  2:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus, Artur Malabarba; +Cc: emacs-devel

On 11/07/2015 09:13 PM, Michael Albinus wrote:

> Reality check: I've asked more than a week ago, no response. Nobody
> feels responsible for vc. vc-tests.el keeps stalled, unfortunately.

Sorry. I've marked all those thread as TODO, but didn't get around to 
them yet. Are any of these urgent? If yes, why?

It seems like they can easily wait until after the Emacs 25 release, or 
at the very least, until after the feature freeze.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08  2:28           ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-11-08  8:41             ` Michael Albinus
  2015-11-08 11:45               ` Dmitry Gutov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-11-08  8:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> Are any of these urgent? If yes, why?

Of course not. I've just taken the opportunity to ask.

> It seems like they can easily wait until after the Emacs 25 release,

This is months from now. And there are release critical bugs, see
Bug#19548, Bug#20637.

> or at the very least, until after the feature freeze.

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08  1:06           ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Kelvin White
  2015-11-08  2:18             ` Artur Malabarba
@ 2015-11-08  9:48             ` Michael Albinus
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-11-08  9:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kelvin White; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

Kelvin White <kwhite@gnu.org> writes:

Hi Kevin,

> As for vc... I am not sure if I can be of any help yet,
> but I'm willing to give it a shot if you would like

It would be great if you could review my questions I have sent in the
messages with subjects "vc-tests.el: ..." on Oct 30th.

TIA, and best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08  8:41             ` Michael Albinus
@ 2015-11-08 11:45               ` Dmitry Gutov
  2015-11-08 12:30                 ` Michael Albinus
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Dmitry Gutov @ 2015-11-08 11:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

On 11/08/2015 10:41 AM, Michael Albinus wrote:

> This is months from now. And there are release critical bugs, see
> Bug#19548, Bug#20637.

If you know how to mark me responsible for these using our bug tracker, 
please do.

The documentation changes can certainly wait until after the freeze, IMHO.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests?
  2015-11-08 11:45               ` Dmitry Gutov
@ 2015-11-08 12:30                 ` Michael Albinus
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Michael Albinus @ 2015-11-08 12:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dmitry Gutov; +Cc: Artur Malabarba, emacs-devel

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

>> This is months from now. And there are release critical bugs, see
>> Bug#19548, Bug#20637.
>
> If you know how to mark me responsible for these using our bug
> tracker, please do.

I've marked you as owner of both bugs.

Best regards, Michael.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2015-11-08 12:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <CAAdUY-KDQ+V0Zgj4gvgi9bxf5A+O5guNw+M3042w4Qtz_55j=A@mail.gmail.com>
2015-10-27 23:28 ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Artur Malabarba
2015-10-27 23:31   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-28 16:02   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-28 19:20   ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-28 20:15     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-29  7:46       ` Michael Albinus
2015-11-07 19:13         ` Michael Albinus
2015-11-07 19:26           ` You probably need a new maintainer for vc.el Eric S. Raymond
2015-11-08  1:06           ` Which files suffer from a complete lack of tests? Kelvin White
2015-11-08  2:18             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-08  9:48             ` Michael Albinus
2015-11-08  2:16           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-11-08  2:26             ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  2:28           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08  8:41             ` Michael Albinus
2015-11-08 11:45               ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-08 12:30                 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-29  1:13     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-29  7:48       ` Michael Albinus

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