From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Garreau\, Alexandre" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 12:50:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87efcb3bp8.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> References: <5B8BFDC9-A07B-48FE-8C97-1BB0B84E5577@gmail.com> <865zxruycx.fsf@zoho.com> <875zxr7zke.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <868t2lsvdm.fsf@zoho.com> <87mur19bnc.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540637374 2466 195.159.176.226 (27 Oct 2018 10:49:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 10:49:34 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (5.13), GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.11) of 2017-09-15, modified by Debian Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 27 12:49:30 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gGM9p-0000Yn-F3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 12:49:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35999 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGMBw-0004Fu-0G for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:51:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35185) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGMBQ-0004Fm-Va for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:51:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGMBQ-0003HR-78 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:51:08 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:52582) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gGMBP-0002w5-T2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 06:51:08 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=portable.galex-713.eu) by portable.galex-713.eu with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gGMB2-000227-BK; Sat, 27 Oct 2018 12:50:44 +0200 PGP-FINGERPRINT: E109 9988 4197 D7CB B0BC 5C23 8DEB 24BA 867D 3F7F Accept-Language: fr, en, eo, it, br In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:41:06 -0400") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:5884:8305::1 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118438 Archived-At: On 2018-10-26 at 11:41, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> What I=E2=80=99ve heard personally is about inconsistency in the languag= e as a >> library/interface, and slowness due to naive implementation of lisp, >> absence of compiler, commitment to a truely maximally dynamic >> architecture, and simplicity (you can=E2=80=99t extend the reader for in= stance, >> contrarily to both cl and TeX). > > BTW, regarding reader macros, the reason why I opposed it was not > "simplicity" but because I consider it to be a misfeature in the form > it's done in CL and TeX, I think I missed the mentioned thread=E2=80=A6 can you point me to it? or w= as it the one on fancy quotes (then it=E2=80=99s not that much developed, was it?= )? > and even with alternative designs there's still the issue of the > security impact to let `read` run arbitrary code. any dynamically modifiable function, that is, afaik, any lisp non-core function, can already be modified to do that, and if it=E2=80=99s done to automatically execute unsafe and/or not trustworthy code, that=E2=80=99s an= user (or whoever changed it to do so) error, isn=E2=80=99t it? so how this is more important for `read' than other I/O (`print', `message', `minibuffer-message'=E2=80=A6) or language (`eval', `apply', `apply-partially'=E2=80=A6) functions?