From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Survey: changing a few default settings for Org 9.4
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 23:58:03 +1100
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References: <87pnebf2ku.fsf@gnu.org> <87k14i7r0s.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
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I agree 100%. We have already gone through this pain and as has been
pointed out numerous times, the 'new' approach has significant benefits
over the old <x expansion. Yes, it takes a bit of effort to untrain the
old habits, but once done the new version works fine.

I also think Nicolas' point that adding (require 'org-tempo) is a lot
more trivial than removing it from the list of loaded modules.

The other poinit is that while tempo has been around for years, it is
not the easiest templating solution to use, especially for those
unfamiliar with it who may want to add their own tempo templates. Other
templating solutions, like yasnippets, are likely much easier for new
users to adopt than tempo.

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> - Add org-tempo to org-modules
>>
>>   Last but not least: we had long discussions about this one in the
>>   past.  Expansion of the "<s" templates (and other "<*" templates) at
>>   the beginning of the line has been turned off.  I have IRL met with
>>   Org users* who just thought the feature was broken/deleted, without
>>   having/taking the time/knowledge/guts to look for the things they
>>   can turn on.  I am all for turning this on again, letting experts
>>   disabling the feature if they don't want it.
>>
>>   * We have regular meetings with https://www.emacs-doctor.com/
>
> This is not a good default, at least for beginners, because Org provides
> a better solution out of the box. There are also better solutions
> outside Org (e.g., Yasnippet).
>
> It is only valuable for existing users, who relied on this feature, and
> don't want to switch. It's perfectly understandable, but it is also fair
> to assume they can add (require 'org-module) to their own configuration.
> _Removing_ the module, OTOH, is subtle.
>
> By the way, this does not belong to the same category as other
> defcustoms discussed. This is only tangential to "how does Org should
> look and feel by default". It relates to: should Org provide multiple
> snippet extensions, knowing this is not a central feature, and Org is
> often seen as bloated by Emacs devs? I don't think so, no matter how
> useful this feature can be for some users.
>
> Regards,


--
Tim Cross