Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

I was recently testing Org mode using old Emacs versions. Running make
on master fails with the following errors and warnings:

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-C.el...
Eager macro-expansion failure: (error "Vector QPatterns not implemented yet")

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-clojure.el...

In end of data:
ob-clojure.el:255:1:Warning: the function `funcall-interactively' is not known
    to be defined.

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-core.el...

In toplevel form:
ob-core.el:649:1:Error: Vector QPatterns not implemented yet

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el...

In end of data:
ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function `file-local-name' is not known to be
    defined.

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-python.el...
Compiler-macro error for python-syntax-context: (void-function python-syntax--context-compiler-macro)

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ol-eww.el...

In org-eww-store-link:
ol-eww.el:76:36:Warning: reference to free variable `eww-data'

In end of data:
ol-eww.el:182:1:Warning: the function `eww-current-url' is not known to be
    defined.

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org-agenda.el...

In toplevel form:
org-agenda.el:5400:1:Warning: Unused lexical argument `e'

In end of data:
org-agenda.el:10851:1:Warning: the following functions are not known to be
    defined: funcall-interactively, window-font-width

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org-plot.el...

In org-plot/gnuplot:
org-plot.el:633:4:Warning: `(dump-func (plist-get type :data-dump))' is a
    malformed function
org-plot.el:682:17:Warning: reference to free variable `dump-func'

In end of data:
org-plot.el:727:1:Warning: the following functions are not known to be
    defined: seq-group-by, if-let, ignore-error

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org.el...

In org-display-inline-images:
org.el:16554:57:Warning: reference to free variable `image-map'

In end of data:
org.el:21292:1:Warning: the function `make-process' is not known to be
    defined.

Best,
Ihor

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Timothy]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving Org's
minimum supported Emacs to 25...?

--
Timothy

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Timothy <tecosaur@gmail.com> writes:

> Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving Org's
> minimum supported Emacs to 25...?

I have no objections here, since I am on Emacs master anyway.

In any case, not all the warnings go away even using Emacs 25.3:

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el...

In end of data:
ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function ‘file-local-name’ is not known to be
    defined.

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org-plot.el...

In end of data:
org-plot.el:727:1:Warning: the function ‘ignore-error’ is not known to be
    defined.

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org.el...

In org-display-inline-images:
org.el:16554:57:Warning: reference to free variable ‘image-map’

Best,
Ihor

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Timothy]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> In any case, not all the warnings go away even using Emacs 25.3:

Just going to chime in here with the relevant info:

> ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function ‘file-local-name’ is not known to be
>     defined.

:added:    26.1

It looks like the definition could just be used here:

(or (file-remote-p file 'localname) file)

> In end of data:
> org-plot.el:727:1:Warning: the function ‘ignore-error’ is not known to be
>     defined.

:added:    27.1

Once again, the definition isn't too bad.

(condition-case nil (progn ,@body) (,condition nil))

This one is actually within my purview (oops), so I'll take care of this
shortly.

--
Timothy

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Robert Horn]

Timothy writes:

> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving Org's
> minimum supported Emacs to 25...?

I checked Red Hat, Centos, Debian, SuSE, and Ubuntu.  They are all 25.1
or later in their current distributions.  So that will probably not
cause too much breakage.

-- 
Robert Horn
rjhorn@alum.mit.edu

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Colin Baxter]

>>>>> Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> writes:

    > Timothy writes:

    >> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
    >> 
    >> Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving
    >> Org's minimum supported Emacs to 25...?

    > I checked Red Hat, Centos, Debian, SuSE, and Ubuntu.  They are all
    > 25.1 or later in their current distributions.  So that will
    > probably not cause too much breakage.

    > -- Robert Horn rjhorn@alum.mit.edu

Debian 9.13 (which is still supported) has emacs-24. 

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Robert Horn]

Colin Baxter writes:

>>>>>> Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> writes:
>
>     > Timothy writes:
>
>     >> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>     >> 
>     >> Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving
>     >> Org's minimum supported Emacs to 25...?
>
>     > I checked Red Hat, Centos, Debian, SuSE, and Ubuntu.  They are all
>     > 25.1 or later in their current distributions.  So that will
>     > probably not cause too much breakage.
>
>     > -- Robert Horn rjhorn@alum.mit.edu
>
> Debian 9.13 (which is still supported) has emacs-24. 

Interesting question about LTS.  How far back should we consider when
estimating the impact of a change like this?  I was looking at current
stable versions to estimate the impact of the change.  Lots of users
avoid the bleeding edge distribution releases, but most update to track
the current stable/LTS releases.  Or they won't complain that it's
unfair for org to expect them to update emacs to the current stable/LTS
version.

Ubuntu, Red Hat, CentOS and SuSE are 25.1 or above for their most recent
long term support releases.  Some of these distributions go a lot
further with various forms of long term support.  I think Red Hat goes
back 8 years for example, and that emacs is really old.

It looks like 25.1 is available, but not yet the default for Debian
"stretch" (Debian 9.13), which is the "oldstable" for Debian. With
Debian backport efforts I don't know if this means months or years.  The
web page for Emacs25inStretch has not changed since 2017, so it might
never happen.

-- 
Robert Horn
rjhorn@alum.mit.edu

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Colin Baxter]

>>>>> Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> writes:

    > Colin Baxter writes:

    >>>>>>> Robert Horn <rjhorn@panix.com> writes:
    >> 
    >> > Timothy writes:
    >> 
    >> >> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
    >> >> 
    >> >> Maybe this is a good time to start a discussion about moving
    >> >> Org's minimum supported Emacs to 25...?
    >> 
    >> > I checked Red Hat, Centos, Debian, SuSE, and Ubuntu.  They are
    >> all > 25.1 or later in their current distributions.  So that will
    >> > probably not cause too much breakage.
    >> 
    >> > -- Robert Horn rjhorn@alum.mit.edu
    >> 
    >> Debian 9.13 (which is still supported) has emacs-24.

    > Interesting question about LTS.  How far back should we consider
    > when estimating the impact of a change like this?  I was looking
    > at current stable versions to estimate the impact of the change.
    > Lots of users avoid the bleeding edge distribution releases, but
    > most update to track the current stable/LTS releases.  Or they
    > won't complain that it's unfair for org to expect them to update
    > emacs to the current stable/LTS version.

    > Ubuntu, Red Hat, CentOS and SuSE are 25.1 or above for their most
    > recent long term support releases.  Some of these distributions go
    > a lot further with various forms of long term support.  I think
    > Red Hat goes back 8 years for example, and that emacs is really
    > old.

    > It looks like 25.1 is available, but not yet the default for
    > Debian "stretch" (Debian 9.13), which is the "oldstable" for
    > Debian. With Debian backport efforts I don't know if this means
    > months or years.  The web page for Emacs25inStretch has not
    > changed since 2017, so it might never happen.

Debian 9.13 may be old but updates are still made available. While
Debian supports the os-version and therefore by implication emacs-24, I
feel org-mode shouldn't deliberately break that support.

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Timothy]

Colin Baxter <m43cap@yandex.com> writes:

> Debian 9.13 may be old but updates are still made available. While
> Debian supports the os-version and therefore by implication emacs-24, I
> feel org-mode shouldn't deliberately break that support.

I have to admit, I'm not sure why Org support should stretch so far
back. If it was a standalone thing, I could see it, but as it's
vendored with Emacs I'm not sure why we don't just do stable Emacs - 1
(i.e. 26.3 ATM).

--
Timothy

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Colin Baxter]

>>>>> Timothy  <tecosaur@gmail.com> writes:

    > Colin Baxter <m43cap@yandex.com> writes:

    >> Debian 9.13 may be old but updates are still made
    >> available. While Debian supports the os-version and therefore by
    >> implication emacs-24, I feel org-mode shouldn't deliberately
    >> break that support.

    > I have to admit, I'm not sure why Org support should stretch so
    > far back. If it was a standalone thing, I could see it, but as
    > it's vendored with Emacs I'm not sure why we don't just do stable
    > Emacs - 1 (i.e. 26.3 ATM).

That's another view, and quite reasonable. I'll stick to mine but I'm
happy to be "out-voted".

Best wishes,

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Tim Cross]

Timothy <tecosaur@gmail.com> writes:

> Colin Baxter <m43cap@yandex.com> writes:
>
>> Debian 9.13 may be old but updates are still made available. While
>> Debian supports the os-version and therefore by implication emacs-24, I
>> feel org-mode shouldn't deliberately break that support.
>
> I have to admit, I'm not sure why Org support should stretch so far
> back. If it was a standalone thing, I could see it, but as it's
> vendored with Emacs I'm not sure why we don't just do stable Emacs - 1
> (i.e. 26.3 ATM).

I don't think we can set an absolute limit. It really depends on what
has changed in Emacs. For example, if Emacs adds some feature or
capability which really improves org performance, we might decide to
drop older versions sooner to try and get everyone onto a more
performant version. On the other hand, if new versions of Emacs don't
really add any significantly beneficial changes, we might continue to
support older versions for longer. We also need to consider changes in
the Emacs release cycle. In recent years, this seems to have been faster
than it use to be. Emacs 24.5 was released in April 2015, which is only
6 years ago. Emacs 25.3 was less than 4 years ago.

People do tend to upgrade their hardware every 3 - 5 years and it can
take distributions 2+ years to update the version they are shipping, so
in general, we probably do need to support major versions for up to 5 or
so years after release. However, this also needs to consider the adding
of lexical binding as a significant enhancement. The next 'big one' is
likely to be native compilation support for *.el files.

I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.


-- 
Tim Cross

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Hi Tim and everyone,

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.

yes, I'm in favor of dropping support for Emacs < 25.1 for Org 9.5.

Unless Nicolas, Kyle and Jack think otherwise, I'll announce this in
the release notes.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Hi Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el...
>
> In end of data:
> ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function ‘file-local-name’ is not known to be
>     defined.
>
> Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/org.el...
>
> In org-display-inline-images:
> org.el:16554:57:Warning: reference to free variable ‘image-map’

could you provide a patch for these two warnings for the maint branch?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Ihor Radchenko writes:

> I was recently testing Org mode using old Emacs versions. Running make
> on master fails with the following errors and warnings:

Here are a few notes on ones present in maint that I've glanced at.

> Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ol-eww.el...
>
> In org-eww-store-link:
> ol-eww.el:76:36:Warning: reference to free variable `eww-data'
>
> In end of data:
> ol-eww.el:182:1:Warning: the function `eww-current-url' is not known to be
>     defined.

These are guarded by version checks.  Ideally the compatibility kludges
would be done in a way to avoid the warnings (e.g., with boundp/fboundp
guards) or at least wrapped in with-no-warnings, though harmless
warnings on Emacs 24 don't really matter too much at this point.

> In end of data:
> org-agenda.el:10851:1:Warning: the following functions are not known to be
>     defined: funcall-interactively, window-font-width

Adding a compatibility function for window-font-width is tricky.  We
can't just add something like below to org-compat because font-info (C
code) wasn't added until Emacs 25.

  (if (fboundp 'window-font-width)
      (defalias 'org-window-font-width 'window-font-width)
    (defun org-window-font-width (&optional window face)
      (with-selected-window (window-normalize-window window t)
        (if (display-multi-font-p)
            (let* ((face (if face face 'default))
                   (info (font-info (face-font face)))
                   (width (aref info 11)))
              (if (> width 0)
                  width
                (aref info 10)))
          (frame-char-width)))))

> In org-display-inline-images:
> org.el:16554:57:Warning: reference to free variable `image-map'

This warning is now gone (df84100d0), though functionally it was fine
due to a version check.

> In end of data:
> org.el:21292:1:Warning: the function `make-process' is not known to be
>     defined.

This should be addressed by 869b7a21b.

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> Here are a few notes on ones present in maint that I've glanced at.

I confirm that there are no warning using Emacs 25.3.1 on maint.

For Emacs 24.5.1, I see that following in addition to what you
mentioned:

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-python.el...
Compiler-macro error for python-syntax-context: (void-function python-syntax--context-compiler-macro)

Compiling /home/yantar92/Git/org-mode/lisp/ob-C.el...

In toplevel form:
ob-C.el:477:1:Error: Unknown upattern `(quote integerp)'

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 453 bytes --]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> could you provide a patch for these two warnings for the maint branch?

>> In end of data:
>> ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function ‘file-local-name’ is not known to be

This does not appear on maint. Only on master. The patch for master attached.

>> In org-display-inline-images:
>> org.el:16554:57:Warning: reference to free variable ‘image-map’

Kyle already dealt with it.

Best,
Ihor


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-Use-org-version-of-file-local-name-for-compatibility.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 923 bytes --]

From d57d51007392f41645b78a28e8ef14132b42c324 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
Message-Id: <d57d51007392f41645b78a28e8ef14132b42c324.1619877335.git.yantar92@gmail.com>
From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 21:54:13 +0800
Subject: [PATCH] Use org version of file-local-name for compatibility with
 Emacs 25

---
 lisp/ob-gnuplot.el | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el b/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el
index c0a9ff13a..a9b8e65e5 100644
--- a/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el
+++ b/lisp/ob-gnuplot.el
@@ -101,7 +101,7 @@ (defun org-babel-gnuplot-process-vars (params)
 				org-babel-temporary-directory
 				"/gnuplot/"
 				(file-remote-p val 'host)
-				(file-local-name val))))
+				(org-babel-local-file-name val))))
 		  (if (and (file-exists-p local-name) ;; only download file if remote is newer
 			   (file-newer-than-file-p local-name val))
 		      local-name
-- 
2.26.3

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Applied as commit 5f619205e with a change log in the commit message.

Thanks!

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

>>> In end of data:
>>> ob-gnuplot.el:299:1:Warning: the function ‘file-local-name’ is not known to be
>
> This does not appear on maint. Only on master. The patch for master attached.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Ihor Radchenko writes:

> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
>
>> Here are a few notes on ones present in maint that I've glanced at.
>
> I confirm that there are no warning using Emacs 25.3.1 on maint.
>
> For Emacs 24.5.1, I see that following in addition to what you
> mentioned:

Ah, sorry for not writing that more clearly.  By the above, I wasn't
saying that the ones I commented on were the _only_ ones I see with
Emacs 24.5 on maint.

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Kyle Meyer writes:

> Ah, sorry for not writing that more clearly.  By the above, I wasn't
> saying that the ones I commented on were the _only_ ones I see with
> Emacs 24.5 on maint.

I've dealt with a few more.

 * ob-C.el:477:1:Error: Unknown upattern `(quote integerp)'

   Introduced by 38f87a26b (ob-C.el: Fix a number a regressions related
   to table parameters, 2021-04-29).

   Fixed by 8bd3bd093.

 * org-agenda.el:10851:1:Warning: the following functions are not known
   to be defined: [...] window-font-width

   I mentioned upthread (<87czubrqh6.fsf@kyleam.com>) that I didn't
   think this was easy to solve with a wrapper.  Instead I've added a
   fallback to the previous calculation, which was in action for a long
   time and is certainly better than a void-function error (94837fc6b).

 * Compiler-macro error for python-syntax-context: (void-function
   python-syntax--context-compiler-macro)

   I don't know what's going on here.  This is triggered by
   (python-syntax-context 'string) in ob-python.  That looks like it
   should work on Emacs 24, where python.el has
   python-syntax--context-compiler-macro.

   Despite the message from the compiler, evaluating
   (python-syntax-context 'string) directly seems to work as expected,
   so perhaps this doesn't actually cause ob-python breakage.

Aside from the harmless ol-eww warnings already mentioned, that leaves
the funcall-interactively instances.

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> Kyle Meyer writes:
>
>> Ah, sorry for not writing that more clearly.  By the above, I wasn't
>> saying that the ones I commented on were the _only_ ones I see with
>> Emacs 24.5 on maint.
>
> I've dealt with a few more.

Thank you both very much!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Hi Tim,

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.

I've added a section called "Compatibility with Emacs versions" on
this page: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html

We now make it clear that latest Org stable aims at being compatible
with Emacs current stable, and the two previous one.

That is: Org 9.4.6 is compatible with 27.x, 26.x and 25.x but maybe
not with 24.x (24.1 being 9 years old now).

HTH,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10

[Max Nikulin]

On 28/09/2021 12:33, Bastien wrote:
> Tim Cross writes:
> 
>> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
>> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.
> 
> I've added a section called "Compatibility with Emacs versions" on
> this page: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html
> 
> We now make it clear that latest Org stable aims at being compatible
> with Emacs current stable, and the two previous one.
> 
> That is: Org 9.4.6 is compatible with 27.x, 26.x and 25.x but maybe
> not with 24.x (24.1 being 9 years old now).

lisp/org.el:;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "24.3"))

Should not it be updated?

https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html:
> For example, if the current major version of Emacs is 28.x, then the
> latest stable version of Org should be compatible with Emacs 28.x, 27.x
> and 26.x – but not with Emacs 25.x.

Ubuntu-18.04 bionic is a Long Time Support release (April 2018), 
emacs-25.2.2 provided from system repository. Maybe it should be 
supported even though next LTS release Ubuntu-20.04 focal is available.

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10

[Samuel Wales]

in debian lts stretch, which goes to June 30, 2022, there is both with
24 being the default.  there are a bunch of packages made into debian
packages.  idk if they work with both.


On 9/28/21, Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 12:33, Bastien wrote:
>> Tim Cross writes:
>>
>>> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
>>> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.
>>
>> I've added a section called "Compatibility with Emacs versions" on
>> this page: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html
>>
>> We now make it clear that latest Org stable aims at being compatible
>> with Emacs current stable, and the two previous one.
>>
>> That is: Org 9.4.6 is compatible with 27.x, 26.x and 25.x but maybe
>> not with 24.x (24.1 being 9 years old now).
>
> lisp/org.el:;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "24.3"))
>
> Should not it be updated?
>
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html:
>> For example, if the current major version of Emacs is 28.x, then the
>> latest stable version of Org should be compatible with Emacs 28.x, 27.x
>> and 26.x – but not with Emacs 25.x.
>
> Ubuntu-18.04 bionic is a Long Time Support release (April 2018),
> emacs-25.2.2 provided from system repository. Maybe it should be
> supported even though next LTS release Ubuntu-20.04 focal is available.
>
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

Please learn what misopathy is.
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Tim Cross]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi Tim,
>
> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
>> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.
>
> I've added a section called "Compatibility with Emacs versions" on
> this page: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html
>
> We now make it clear that latest Org stable aims at being compatible
> with Emacs current stable, and the two previous one.
>
> That is: Org 9.4.6 is compatible with 27.x, 26.x and 25.x but maybe
> not with 24.x (24.1 being 9 years old now).
>

Thanks Bastien. I think it is good to have a clear statement on this,
even if not everyone agrees, as it makes things explicit. I
suspect this will need to be reviewed after each release of a new Emacs
version though as the effort to maintain backwards compatibility will
depend on what has changed in Emacs. Especially given that Emacs release
cycles seem to be getting shorter. 

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10

[Tim Cross]

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> On 28/09/2021 12:33, Bastien wrote:
>> Tim Cross writes:
>> 
>>> I do think it is probably time to drop support for Emacs 24 in the next
>>> major release. However, we cannot drop it 'mid release'.
>> I've added a section called "Compatibility with Emacs versions" on
>> this page: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html
>> We now make it clear that latest Org stable aims at being compatible
>> with Emacs current stable, and the two previous one.
>> That is: Org 9.4.6 is compatible with 27.x, 26.x and 25.x but maybe
>> not with 24.x (24.1 being 9 years old now).
>
> lisp/org.el:;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "24.3"))
>
> Should not it be updated?
>

I would expect it should be updated in org-mode v9.5, but not 9.4.x as
we should only change such things for major version releases. 

> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html:
>> For example, if the current major version of Emacs is 28.x, then the
>> latest stable version of Org should be compatible with Emacs 28.x, 27.x
>> and 26.x – but not with Emacs 25.x.
>
> Ubuntu-18.04 bionic is a Long Time Support release (April 2018), emacs-25.2.2
> provided from system repository. Maybe it should be supported even though next
> LTS release Ubuntu-20.04 focal is available.

Perhaps we need to clarify that the supported versions is based on the
version of Emacs which was stable at the time of release of the org
version. For example, org 9.5, being released this week, means it would
support Eamcs 27.x, 26.x and 25.x, but not Emacs 24.x. If Emacs 28 is
released next month, this would not alter the supported versions as 9.5
was released before Emacs 28. When org 9.6 is released, the supported
versions would be updated to include whatever version of Emacs is stable
at that point (likely 28.x) and the two previous versions. 

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10 [9.4.5 (9.4.5-g3ea248 @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Bastien]

Hi Tim,

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks Bastien. I think it is good to have a clear statement on this,
> even if not everyone agrees, as it makes things explicit. I
> suspect this will need to be reviewed after each release of a new Emacs
> version though as the effort to maintain backwards compatibility will
> depend on what has changed in Emacs. Especially given that Emacs release
> cycles seem to be getting shorter. 

Indeed - Ihor already helped with testing backward compatibility, and
yes, we shall certainly keep an eye on this.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10

[Bastien]

Hi Max,

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> lisp/org.el:;; Package-Requires: ((emacs "24.3"))
>
> Should not it be updated?

Indeed, done, thanks.

> Ubuntu-18.04 bionic is a Long Time Support release (April 2018),
> emacs-25.2.2 provided from system repository. Maybe it should be
> supported even though next LTS release Ubuntu-20.04 focal is
> available.

Since we require Emacs 25.1, it is supported.  When Emacs 28.1 will be
out, it will mean that we don't guarantee backward-compatibility with
Emacs 25.1, but I suspect most things will work - and people using
this old Emacsen can still rely on the Org version that is packaged
with it.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Bug: Org mode fails to compile using Emacs 24.5-r10

[Bastien]

Hi Tim,

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> Perhaps we need to clarify that the supported versions is based on the
> version of Emacs which was stable at the time of release of the org
> version. For example, org 9.5, being released this week, means it would
> support Eamcs 27.x, 26.x and 25.x, but not Emacs 24.x. If Emacs 28 is
> released next month, this would not alter the supported versions as 9.5
> was released before Emacs 28. When org 9.6 is released, the supported
> versions would be updated to include whatever version of Emacs is stable
> at that point (likely 28.x) and the two previous versions. 

Please don't hesitate to clarify things on Worg if needed.

-- 
 Bastien