From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Turning on savehist-mode by default Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 18:19:10 +0000 Message-ID: <87edgmq601.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87wmufm7r7.fsf@catern.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15545"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "sbaugh@catern.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 18 19:19:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r4Pv7-0003uY-NB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:19:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4PuX-0005Of-AV; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:19:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4PuW-0005OT-K1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:19:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4PuU-00011Q-2t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:19:16 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A58A9240101 for ; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:19:11 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1700331551; bh=s1wKLvYGPLHSVnod+xSS4rRtRbS5BpWt9AGA7CeSS2E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=aHqXGBVU9Prvjw51Rhd4ifvQW0GWLP5BYKqXiuRk2PpokApuj2RhJjHyYn/+xJz7U YfWZp570NLXyOQjI6lmCcpk3YlSDLOHYiLnbj8Z0c9OXu0VHdjQiWlWKuzLYI/B1qq RF7ukqFbSEf3OfvdZZFAXG5/6JQ38qAOrbsGR5294NKXKX6moJ2gvcJJtDdaxcXoY4 AfdO7J5y4kcqjm81tMIuTFFy6pLcXWPh9CRjtbQ1I3XJx0U4wB7JLya0yFeADuqCKT yv93xdb0lr29aRKfnO9WCBYt6S43jcTpUQDrpHoFXQwa35mEBKLSzlGqGCpo7267+r bn2pqvpbHivaQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4SXhqf507fz6twx; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 19:19:10 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 18 Nov 2023 16:33:52 +0000") X-Hashcash: 1:20:231118:emacs-devel@gnu.org::zLFDFTNCRGfgfUkN:2KCS X-Hashcash: 1:20:231118:sbaugh@catern.com::70GwholC8wi84+lH:3zKa X-Hashcash: 1:20:231118:drew.adams@oracle.com::Q0bIS6XdyAEYkz+o:4W5I Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312922 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> savehist-mode is a useful mode which is turned on by many Emacs >> users. It matches the default behavior of programs like bash and >> vim, which save command history by default. I suggest that we >> should find some way to enable savehist by default. > > Why? It's trivial to turn it on. As you > say, many users (moi aussi) do so. > > There are a zillion minor modes that many > users find useful to turn on by default. > It doesn't follow that `emacs -Q' should > turn on any of them by default. If something is done by (practically) everyone, especially when it is something that (practically) all beginners would be interested in, I wouldn't dismiss the proposal to enable it by default. How many features satisfy this condition shouldn't matter. After all, there are already a number of features that are enabled by default, like show-paren-mode, that individually are easy to enable, if you know how to do it. The issue is that beginners neither know how to do it, nor what all the options are that they might be interested in. IMO the more important question when considering to enable a feature OOTB, is if it will inconvenience any existing users. I don't think there should be any issues with savehist-mode, but I might not know of some issue? Been using it myself as well for a while. On a related topic, I have been running a configuration generator that has been mentioned here on the list for a while now (https://emacs.amodernist.com/), that could provide opt-in participation in statistics of what features people are interested in. That might help ground matters like these in somewhat more empirical data, or least a different perspective. -- Philip Kaludercic