From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming merge of adaptive-wrap Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2024 09:55:06 +0800 Message-ID: <87ede0hpj9.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <878r4eqjh8.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <878r4eqjh8.fsf@yahoo.com> <875xzgookd.fsf@yahoo.com> <1e6f618f-5572-40e4-addb-016b467def37@gutov.dev> <87il3gn89u.fsf@yahoo.com> <87bk98n3l3.fsf@yahoo.com> <37bf6ee2-3bc0-49e8-aa55-70c77b6c5bf2@gutov.dev> <87a5orl95m.fsf@yahoo.com> <063e35f8-5920-4899-8b48-2a86c524b70e@gutov.dev> <87y1c9hkcx.fsf@yahoo.com> <87il3dh6wd.fsf@yahoo.com> <0318d26c-a09d-49e1-ae6d-cdc5badde9a6@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2048"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stephen Berman To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 29 02:56:11 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rUGsd-0000E3-Jq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 29 Jan 2024 02:56:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUGro-0003Km-Nw; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 20:55:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUGrn-0003Kb-8d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 20:55:19 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.33]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUGrl-0007r0-LD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 20:55:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706493314; bh=RwYWQCazAW4OuOrrrTOCLeMYwS+Dx5gqXP0qB+86umM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=b+vLwXILXPaikSb8KTbtNXjM7kq7WPeWwwAX3uyTgwAoV3zbQzVLvVpYcrDly2wow9nqTCW5VItih201O5UZtUnlkl0KvZRARYcPEiCKBWSdL/m0+aMFK27CnoFJIorhZtibjnPx1NoReIT2qIb7xJycmPRwMZ6FLZV+aM70EOSwdFJ/BfJdWWETrRmOYEp+sQPGcyiw91plu6Bc0jbdQTsDCHbKM3b8/yc/LPj/nZK5AsoGb6NraYtt1gro3FiD6zrMBmyzU6HK29CwlhTdD1X6lfLVZs/GzMifuNJMvtGc9LV2EBDUa64Tvc7VTxYoV0B0WSjgZ2p8rey/xco3AQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706493314; bh=+yohhK+Mv8MXZBuoVdieim+M0/KD0GZGqoXCcRStZXJ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Z4ci0MSwz9nvi9cxFTWxJSVpjc8Aw6GRSjIIzA8c4JNQmL1lIHQ0tcI/zc1acRyhXBNpqxgr7S96MSuEuJU0G0WWpnG+9QcmpjqIU2TfHBzTc27p85ZnvN9LCrNJ37imB5HFXVsXnUHONzZSr4P5mTnAzQm7iD0rHPPbhx/JofI0w6OXM41TDVGxKdyukV06lwD+bhuAt4ZtQqQeLzI28Gi9xxXDAhoCcTpw1mkVvg+C88nS2/EBpoBLPrKi3xT4aECRuJG127ke2QKbUbLtcPyTB2n3s54EuxRCDgJnUq6k32pY9wHPDj+E5uMcSnVXFyGYIwakaK58DwDS3eH3pw== X-YMail-OSG: RpMOQC4VM1mwk0Z6c2h8bTlfhEV9jubtYKbCM2pWzVyynU685v62Yn0APwkewj6 ZLzj646rjRhEcri_ap42ODvj6D0AlNI4ZceKCBrc59MFnefbFkCOnG4Y7RZF__qadTkIAdcPp0Gp sWv8fySFEpe6f5VFhz0S9SS8qYbZkgRAgPKLwk9kKh.aH68XDDzARAPyPMs5x_xzdLLSEpxoME7R Ix7d2nz0qYfz5w2ar6otmRK5Dz7CE6tOHpoq3CaSHppMZFMCqgJnllQMuU6Y5pikjC5AOBCjz3nb cHYFM4uhYwFBM6vdvbgwck7Um9o13RkCvZDEknsBlw8MMAGi0NvqjA.zT4JtidW2Ey2Gst.lVQxz LWPmGGyUbFFDR7T6O6MeFO_5ZHkej0CQSQBfs0CgjfIcaqGFL6lRFZ80l7Pg4XxxKHHsibv7vKQP rm29LSR2aoUwAmT.BFruBzrSxuZGD0yI9HcU18RZPjDKo24lFv0wGd4WEUvOiuTdf_JrHWqJovKX WYvYcCehiaWeAdk44D98wM7xjC66joUnjQQSWYJ48FupXqtaUPOJQV3r_IEos9sXHdBTwkRi_aVl DT0Lc4mtfvd8dmK_GVgAP_MrTjkfowLa1dxP1LRvxiwIztSyxzZs3l3wNPY4tHt_U.Pnscmmo4L8 8uDDt1aS6lXqEHW2_xRLgz34gd0gw3LGhPqCw1GBy.4fngM.c91UX06s_CkY20QNE2t3tBtwV5mJ D5SyQqx4f4qGYv6GXLlfRg7WXB6TjWa8Dos_w_bPiDYqOKaPh4eHUI92KYiHi7Qn7jmGHqHytjnI ouvEMj8Zh5A1pXdvtp3HJLV6iFMQ6jdmLEVa_bdWRL X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: fb71e2c5-6206-4915-8204-72db1777287f Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2024 01:55:14 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6dc75bc8fb-pl74c (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a3b8368672bd531db5817a5d569c610c; Mon, 29 Jan 2024 01:55:11 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <0318d26c-a09d-49e1-ae6d-cdc5badde9a6@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sun, 28 Jan 2024 20:01:11 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22046 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.33; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315573 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > Yeah, actually it could be a worthwhile addition. We have commands > like package-menu-filter-by-description, but what they're actually > filter by is the one-line summary, nor the full description from > Commentary. This would require certain changes in the package > archives, since currently those descriptions are fetched separately > on-demand. I won't object to this, but a feature yet to exist should not figure in our judgement of the package list's usefulness. > I imagine the adaptive-wrap package will be removed from ELPA sooner > or later. We might as well discuss the tradeoffs. There are no plans to remove it from ELPA, since users who don't upgrade to Emacs 30 won't receive visual-wrap. > This is another example where the user is supposed to recognize the > feature by its short summary, right? "Visual Wrap Prefix Mode". > > A the "tooltip describing its function" is > > Display continuation lines with visual context-dependent prefix > > If you think it describes it well, seems like a good package summary? Obviously, it's insufficient for users to immediately conclude that it is the option that satisfies their wishes, but it is easily located and evaluated, as the number of surrounding menu items is small. > Use this command and search the list for keywords > > vs > > Open one of these big books and look for the thing you wanted > > I wonder what would be considered easier (people go and Google instead). Nothing on the splash screen suggests the manual is "one of these big books", or that searching within the manual will be impossible, as it is in a book. Nor was my question answered. > Your group seems to have some particular qualities that go across most > of my experience, and those experiences I've seen conveyed on the > web. Perhaps it has to do something with the particular ecosystem (it > is a company which has SunOS installed somewhere, right?). > > The packages list even has a specific feature that highlights the > packages that have been added recently (since your last viewing). All > in the name of discovery. And I've taken advantage of it many times > myself. Going forward, it would serve you well not to dismiss my experiences on the basis of backhanded preconceptions of the individuals with whom I interact. My words were "instant messenger group", not "my organization's group", and they were meant literally. > These seem like words for additional context, but not the terms for > describing the thing to search for. Or I misunderstand something. Users whose requirements are best met by adaptive-wrap will search for text editing concepts it affects, not the precise function of the package, which they do not understand concretely enough to frame in words.