From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MPS and pgtk Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:09:10 +0800 Message-ID: <87ed8ivrw9.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <878qyr6ewh.fsf@disroot.org> <86h6df6izq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18032"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Ergus , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, avityazev@disroot.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 27 08:10:36 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMiL6-0004TZ-CV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:10:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMiK3-0005pO-PX; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:09:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMiK1-0005ob-RS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:09:29 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic314-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.148]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMiJz-0003lG-Dq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:09:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719468565; bh=Y7pFCrSOol08GPabfw1O3QOWsjLbbDCulFnGfqz2hxw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=kCYW+igLwTnrYfvhU0GC/XLYy/T0wx1ktAZ3l5+40IAYq6Odk4Ox2LmyzcaVuuy+tSm8S4yVaVe/S9O6faLte/+ZDmCl//I8VwLi3KzT0NVQocv7H/1ySLyGnGnenU0baSpnE0f2SwtezbaPHjpEi8wGqBvk4NwRMoZsj+yCdtf8OoGf7HMBXiQ2k58DH70/1O6QEtlt2AmRZYo1BdWFvvnioTpGGRGeKvfhoN8Riki52KKTH6PoidayoSZ+r2CJk3cH9fS2cNK3mpgWFNJv4LehiTFxP/0Lym0kTE4YPQs6V2OVVG3TpgO0u/jQQKLIzd4nVB87k9gS/VxLtwOTjw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719468565; bh=pOUuH3WEX4DrIpuZkJhnT2YmNxwY31TLMyneYZUWQYa=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=iBBIMeC7zHH52BKhBsAjgbz4JxUowIk4srfS9m7kQJSfnaURFhUGhUwwxJTf+Wzq+38qkLKZEPT/OzuZJybCaM5/xAm2FryGjVUJNTDvDg6PjXFm2gQzVuVsv2o7QuEBvbR+JOm9gbTph5geVyHmy8YgCPVydB4+Fif0dHATJehhPwLrhyHtMvzXz+9CQMkXc9j9AZMVnCIesAmLhfBNz8PPrc7DIZpb+J67FM7llQ/19rX4vLKDEBpEccgVu0G1974a1UUpF3DEyiPckwhP1me9+/0n1sQ8IwINg8hpSkNBR9USBeVR+l72qmB4mICuypDR25DiIu0w4ypoUJ37WQ== X-YMail-OSG: ChJRgPgVM1mUX9gkHs9b0l4xC52EGCy9AtXHYF25uX5rIzqBJjYFWjm3vu3cRtg k5LShJozqU686RaYW1Y6LtT1mG5IaWHH.WULKfp2b4XREh7xWCS4Y0e3S1kDw81nDYZrpKXm9PXm 1c8t3EL.1d8RwCFT5QKY6tt3N6bbvs6lfocZlFdVq13ueZLv435usfQXaTgFOobLdkTJAyezVfSl IyCrlOdA00SvYqk6h.NtmqnKvhPwx6UW3GA0D.0W8.fXInQbyegBjV8a2uURjR6vD7vOWIUzae9t PJsqiS9LdpoalFcVaPkTFGtPMJE.zNpcgOPM9FPKH9BFosjeykX3Gil8tAi8bB5Qs8rKr9B4S6AY nj4grZ3uRsbQUzpNDUPNXHJpeon8j2QG3MV.OV7x1FiY2vzON8DmQ0uBfzhX9eIAfWOAa_hT.2rb lGF992IjtQu3ZKxOIoAgA3vB2XDT4QQRMVclXqMZZWpVi2OE6pSlU2iGnt36G5rhphdxYefRJFsT cyhtqmSYxsB5Nk2eutX2WrjSaSsTtHtQLU.nKft26koRSFXTTNGiNibrrBiGG9NUWt5dgmeYmCj2 I0_Md_scSmBDmElL4nZ98IDhQifgR_WsHBNh3qruXymqrTm8YOABGxCxlIvDfeAaKVZGI907mvFt d_9ACMy6pHLwieREKrjgMhUyfPPmDYGVUm2zvBLGB6ulOGXZ7Z2KYtAH4j5ajRv_tBIqiDKfO8_F ucrbuufiAX8c5CKqoBdSLxET.WucIjQGZPP5NL8IjnWGdmh9Q5G7oyrohEKmq6jYj_fMCvq2anWQ KyfFu0hZaBziCplR4JAy97ImwiHws9pAxcG9M7wtOe X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 5bc5591d-9f42-4adf-b434-d42f4c7adf75 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:09:25 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-7b469d9f6-2w46x (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 64c332563f1876085a90d8742b235d5c; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 06:09:20 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86h6df6izq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:40:41 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic314-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320746 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Which is bothersome, at least from the Emacs POV, since Wayland and > PGTK have so many limitations, restrictions, and misfeatures which > effectively disable useful Emacs features. > >> So, IMHO the pgtk support may be prioritized as it is the only way we >> support Wayland natively. >> >> Not sure if there are plans or alternatives under consideration to >> change/improve pgtk, but if igc becomes an issue for it... we may >> rethink if we really want it looking to the future? > > Given the sorry state of Wayland and GTK support of what Emacs needs, > from my POV the PGTK configuration becomes less and less relevant to > Emacs. I'm aware that the world moves in the opposite direction, but > unless we get some help from Wayland/GTK developers, or, > alternatively, find ways to work around those limitations (unlikely, > IMNSHO), there's nothing we can do about this, and nothing we could > gain by "rethinking". If you care about these platforms, start > lobbying the respective development teams to cater more for Emacs and > its needs. > > Sorry. The silver lining is that I very much doubt PGTK will pose special difficulties for MPS support.