From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Recent change to describe-variable Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 08:34:03 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87d3l2cf90.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <874o6gur58.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87r59ibbff.fsf@lifelogs.com> <77BECCED88B440C6A9F9C01692854B66@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1301924076 28293 80.91.229.12 (4 Apr 2011 13:34:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 04 15:34:32 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q6jvL-0008Ct-OQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:34:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39730 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q6jvK-000899-EY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:34:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54313 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Q6jvC-00084i-Dn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:34:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q6jv9-0002vx-G0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:34:21 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:33824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Q6jv9-0002vP-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 09:34:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q6jv6-00082L-OM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:34:16 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:34:16 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:34:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 48 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:QoO8NlKLczGwJqzJiTIJziM0RjQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:138114 Archived-At: On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 06:03:09 -0700 "Drew Adams" wrote: >> > So if `C-h v' AKA `describe-variable' is going to describe >> > everything, it should at least filter out self-quoting :symbols >> >> At your request I installed a change to exclude :keywords DA> Oh, are we now installing things at the request of one Emacs DA> user/developer? Someone has an idea s?he thinks is good, so it's DA> installed as part of Emacs? Yes, I believe that's exactly how it works. I don't know why you're acting surprised. >> but the lexbind-new merge overrode it. So if the current >> predicate is removed it would be good to filter out keywords >> again (though it makes sense to let pass keywords with a >> docstring, which my original patch didn't). DA> Keywords with a doc string and without. I agree with the post below by Stefan DA> to the cited thread: if it has a doc string, include it. And even if it doesn't DA> have a doc string, include it ("No documentation" is useful information.) I was specifically talking about self-quoting symbols. Putting them in `describe-variable' is like putting personal names like "John" and "Nick" in the dictionary. Besides being incorrect, there are proper nouns and verbs like "john" and "nick." j> (defconst :mykeyword :mykeyword) j> and even if you add a docstring to that, I'm not sure it is sensible j> to show it as a completion of describe-variable... s> s> Actually, if it has a docstring, it definitely makes sense. And if it s> doesn't, then it's not that much of a problem to include those rare s> cases in the completion. DA> Let _users_ filter things as they like. And if some user wants a DA> specialized "`my-describe-emacs-variable' or DA> `my-describe-documented-variable' then s?he can define the command DA> and post it to the wiki. It's not rare (or difficult) for a user to DA> define a specialized `describe-*' command. But that's ridiculous, shifting the burden to the user. `C-h v' is a first-class command; it's very visible and very important. It should not offer garbage. How could it possibly benefit the user to offer undocumented self-quoting symbols for completion to `describe-variable'? Ted