From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 12:47:46 -0600 Message-ID: <87d2k5eylp.fsf@mac.com> References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389040243 17372 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2014 20:30:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:30:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: toby-dated-1389972095.0848dd@dr-qubit.org, Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 06 21:30:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Gox-0000P7-MN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 21:30:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37484 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Gox-0005s0-9r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:30:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37762) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0FDU-0003nN-BL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 13:48:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0FDO-0001dW-P9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 13:48:00 -0500 Original-Received: from st11p00mm-asmtp002.mac.com ([17.172.81.1]:52637) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0FDO-0001dJ-KC; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 13:47:54 -0500 Original-Received: from air (c-50-151-36-62.hsd1.in.comcast.net [50.151.36.62]) by st11p00mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.08(7.0.4.27.7) 64bit (built Aug 22 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0MYZ000GJTJMRU20@st11p00mm-asmtp002.mac.com>; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:47:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-01-06_03:2014-01-06, 2014-01-06, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=1 spamscore=1 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1401060117 In-reply-to: <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (berkeley-unix) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 17.172.81.1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:30:43 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167520 Archived-At: "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > Richard Stallman : >> We could even offer that as the mode of use for beginners, if that >> would make it easier for a new generation of hackers to become Emacs >> users. I don't know whether it WOULD have that effect, but if it >> would, I think it is a good idea. >> Do beginners typically run Emacs under a graphical window system? > > Yes. It's actually pretty rare for even old-school types to run > emacs in a hard or soft terminal these days; normally it is launched > from a window system. The "beginners" and "experts" that I work with are expected (and desire!) to be able to work with Emacs being run through GNU screen, in a old-school terminal window. This allows us to easily reconnect to Emacs sessions that serve as the REPL for long-running code written in, e.g. GNU R. Unfortunately, we haven't had much luck reconnecting to X11 sessions (hence GUI Emacs). It turns out, we really don't need it for our particular purposes. Also, one of Eli's recent patches makes drop-down menus in terminal windows; this removes one of terminal Emacs' "less-pretty" features and increases accessibility through familiarity.