From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:54:47 +0200 Message-ID: <87d22zi69k.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> References: <87383xk4ia.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429516500 22989 80.91.229.3 (20 Apr 2015 07:55:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 07:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Philipp Stephani , Artur Malabarba , emacs-devel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 20 09:55:00 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yk6Xj-0006GE-7X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 09:54:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52174 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yk6Xi-0002XN-M4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:54:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yk6Xe-0002XG-Pf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:54:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yk6Xa-0003T9-OJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:54:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x22c.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c]:35339) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yk6Xa-0003St-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 03:54:50 -0400 Original-Received: by wgyo15 with SMTP id o15so169700882wgy.2 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 00:54:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=zof0mO/K0TrHx54kl/OwdvIopfZP5WrA//FY6Pd0CH8=; b=XZmPfffQa5LPud0bzuRwjMLHvO1jhFgeJf756RoCBOH+qm/kKqIzczQOzdG8xerQyf pWoSbq0064KqXnzkRQ+ufSfF1t1/f/Ac7sBMs3B/3wRKoevUKyxwsQRcHQEH0rG2wMoz 50WGIZ2G61ENZmBdMeIifJQYyePX7ANLHWZf4dOqas/hZjmDae+Tk3DbDXY0KVHgQs3v 1ASuR9qaVgzHDuAaK3YloHI3HdtiWtjwDIq7uCn2slHKTow9RgVotcvfVQYyHfnJ9fPP N0gspMMhtv4FRUj9wZxNEEjiegkN4jBD3GH3aQ6sNi1pPIAaCIVuuQGSYHYmwk4sQZMh 9RJw== X-Received: by 10.180.91.137 with SMTP id ce9mr22353277wib.76.1429516489757; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 00:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A37CC750213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a37:cc75:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k2sm14078856wif.3.2015.04.20.00.54.48 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2015 00:54:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sun, 19 Apr 2015 20:43:20 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185690 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> As I keep saying, this won't solve the issue where the user can't `require' >> packages in his init file until package initialize has been manually >> called. That's what prompted this whole thread and it's explained in the >> first email. > > Indeed, for this use-case, adding "(package-initialize)" explicitly in > the ~/.emacs seems like the best solution. I thought the point of this discussion was to find a solution that doesn't require that? > Of course, as mentioned, having `require' in one's ~/.emacs should be > rare. I think many people use `require' in their .emacs to load libraries, though in this case it doesn't matter whether they use `require' or `load-library', or try to call a function or access a variable or anything else from the package. A user is likely to expect everything defined by a package to be available during the execution of their init.el; the failure to meet this expectation is why we get so many confused users asking for help, receiving the answer "just put (package-initialize) at the top of your .emacs". If nobody sees any disadvantages, and nobody beats me to it, I might start working on implementing the solution that separates pre-package configuration from normal configuration, including Customize. Taylan