From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Sync up the org in emacs master to org maint branch? Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:45:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87d1f36xnc.fsf@engster.org> References: <87k29d7zvw.fsf@engster.org> <87fuk08i01.fsf@engster.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1485877615 14718 195.159.176.226 (31 Jan 2017 15:46:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:46:55 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Bastien Guerry , Phillip Lord , emacs-org list , Emacs developers To: Kaushal Modi Original-X-From: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 31 16:46:47 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cYadq-0003W5-K2 for geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:46:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39106 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cYadv-0001HW-Rv for geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:46:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36432) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cYacv-0001D2-QI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cYacs-0008JF-NM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:49 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:41612) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cYacs-0008Ir-Co; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=Vkotiw5yNc3yTIZ13fsWgkz4k1sldCkA17NI56hPN0o=; b=dskF6zt3caHuJCii6Q1srH9Y+r0vSDjGoMKhA1k2tyge8J1uGYFDtDPYMeM90MaGlTlc4OC4gIIWDs4Rn5tgch7YtedUkk7l9DrNHALIuG3RmJHterCa8gRuormdR/tz; Original-Received: from ip4d16b353.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([77.22.179.83] helo=isaac) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cYacq-0005R0-Lb; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:45:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:52:22 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.orgmode:111790 gmane.emacs.devel:211799 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: >>>>>> "DE" == David Engster writes: > > DE> It is a mistake because you are creating more moving targets and bring > DE> them together very late in the release process. This reduces the amount of > DE> testing that is done for those packages, so bugs will be noticed later and > DE> the quality of the relases suffer. It moves even more work into the > DE> RC-phase, which is already crowded and where people who can fix those bugs > DE> might not be readily available. It removes those packages from Emacs CI, > DE> so that breakages due to changes in core are not immediately noticed, and > DE> often times they have to be fixed not by those who created the breakage, > DE> but by those who notice them. > > These are issues to be fixed in the way ELPA integrates with our development > process. I recognize today's ELPA may have these drawbacks, but I believe they > can be fixed. This really has not much to do with how ELPA works. My points above are about the underlying concept you are proposing: moving packages out of Emacs core and hence removing them from current Emacs development, but still bundling them with the release. It's a have-and-eat-cake concept. > We're moving toward a future where Emacs.git will represent "core Emacs", and > only contain what core needs (plus a few historical bits, I'm sure). There > should be no argument for keeping a project in core just to gain auxiliary > benefits. Of the points I raise above, which fall under "just to gain auxiliary benefits"? I'm honestly confused. I'm specifically talking about the quality of the Emacs relases. Also, I currently have no idea how to continue with CEDET, as the future where development should happen is unclear, and I get the feeling we're just waisting our time with the ongoing merge. -David