From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Albinus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 262d0c6: Mark some tests as expensive Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:43:17 +0200 Message-ID: <87d02rginu.fsf@gmx.de> References: <20200910182904.20559.25935@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20200910182905.F0E4520A2E@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <877dt0is0p.fsf@gmx.de> <83a6xve0vq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1187"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 16:46:18 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6nC-0000Dw-2z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:46:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42622 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6nA-00063H-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:46:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6kP-0005Pe-2I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:43:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:43995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH6kN-0007LV-2c; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 10:43:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1599921799; bh=CmxdshOL4EpsVjkgP2x0cRFQBPw+iGFv2T1HMM9Pjs0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Xqt9LdwVY3Kf+53OlV1y29Q+XqOdobrn4xceqXhH4fbQNBF6d2ajPtvSuV6Unar75 qV8VtcuX+Cd9fy3/PurPXGauw/73H5buApa7+1uffJHSdc67RIH+lzweAi+7hHWWE5 gnJzNMFelp0BkvgDK3G8a5rqVIxYQUpQI2O6P1YU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([212.86.41.134]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVvLB-1k7Rj81NbR-00RqeD; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:43:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: ("Daniel =?utf-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn=22's?= message of "Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:00:00 +0200") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Z1WPvePywToJ3jlSLe+aJiXzQulr7621rd4DPTQ6LXFN5pz/9lO bCDX08ylaxp+HhLxLEwp+RkTdBEQ/ssE3oJvvHVB0iev12hgHcx4hGcTbrWe3q6f6PgL7MK uSVSQnaAgf5X8srScIlNgKTCPRosQxqoET09kjeeSE7BS2AzBdg3uUUIA5KFyG7FFp1g9mj gxIRIgfXlzbUM2lfzoNhA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xylTyvW4r8s=:VCmTlegS0vfXRHmYvJmKBh a4/Qk2l+6ljouebKgPbrfeb068e9IGneMCBbxfcRgCVfC9nTSE/PKgSyME8KoQoi7xXXUU5X0 oDs6e2Ehr4AnA2C+9DWuDbnQg/Nk6ghTpYXSslUgep2H+C2EfkVikpt6hlBLZE4u81ahe5dGD L9RfOooalgi9hvCH5z6jRR2aF7ZNtUw8YPhnwiwYimKZjL4FaB1Eb7SMan2mKKXHAHZCU1CO4 ANg2WiVK7Q8a6WV0XJiRLTj3RNBx2XKpciBv73bUfOA7Cf1RmjIcA/OCIcavmo4hcuH2Z4TzS zosV6N51CfDDW8zhxnNd5DVE0MbYOjb9CT2B6wGz9q0Wo9AMqJhIK4VXjRfQ7RpeU7TmUokpC RL5pG/N2PTHQTH8c2qdmxR69qNIdV4BWKNzXkeW/N/p3+vyd/IYIg1s9UqxEQgo4pwn3eJG2e WcYLC04dKvLr5PCJjIeCbAIJ23xm5NkC1gHu/TlCFFH9H6DzUWB0NeGXYRyb/2jdZWliYPwL2 VXP8lQVBqy7wm751BeHd4HJ6OmxBqHnzBaQUr6ZBjLZJ9t7wmnpl+9JtUyXWLqMkSYku2Lc2a 4kiwQRy16s0TY7qoPdC6PCDyYzPSAqjgYgVCpAsgTuiYjNK5MpkH9La/EYFas/5vrOtpPy0eW IaxBcGKvYT+Jvxf004aKFtk3dQtkbD0jh86Ekgkm0+yZgGrbfNlj3bk4dQAao2lhwYuamLo84 QRSFEx40SoXTnb7bh9L5n+V0qLDcr2CMywwI/OTGqaH44fTeW6V5ScTuZwNkQ80iF37c3fFF Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.21; envelope-from=michael.albinus@gmx.de; helo=mout.gmx.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/12 10:43:20 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255360 Archived-At: Daniel Mart=C3=ADn writes: Hi Daniel, > Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> Tramp tests need more time because they involve a remote system. >> Moreover, the time taken by each Tramp test depends on the speed of >> the connection, which you cannot know in advance. > > If they depend on the connection speed, or if a host is online or > offline, they also introduce non-determinism that perhaps is not > apparent now, but can cause problems when the Tramp codebase (and its > number of tests) scale. For example, if a Tramp test has a 0.1% chance > of failure because of an unrelated network problem, then if the Tramp > test suite reaches a point where 10000 tests are run per day, people > would be investigating 10 test flakes per day. That's a good reason for > people to lose confidence in the Tramp test suite and ignore failures. Tramp tests don't need a remote connection by default. They simulate a connection by a "mock" method, which is in fact a local shell. Real remote connections can be tested also, but this doesn't happen with "make check". Read the Commentary section of tramp-tests.el for details. > I'd say "we should try to run *some* tests as close to real-life > conditions as possible". By abstracting the environment in some tests, > one could potentially test an infinite number of environments and error > conditions, not only what the test happens to run on. We would still > have a few end-to-end tests that check that the program as a whole works > fine, of course. The trade-off is that writing that kind of hermetic > tests takes more time, specially for packages like Tramp. For the records, I keep an ansible script which runs tramp-tests.el in ~75 different configurations, all of them using real remote hosts. I run it at least prior releasing a new Tramp version; it takes up to 2 days (the longest single run of tramp-tests.el takes about 10 hours). This won't go into Emacs' "make check", of course. Best regards, Michael.