From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Elisp LSP Server Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 11:32:58 +1100 Message-ID: <87czo3b184.fsf@gmail.com> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87ee99dv34.fsf@gmail.com> <07cf50ddddb5a9556aa94201a7ac88c9@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87fstf3god.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87ily2947q.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fst5ae2t.fsf@gmail.com> <87v920j0jx.fsf@fastmail.fm> <839638db-98e1-4669-1b7e-82c8e26ec4aa@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18481"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.0; emacs 28.0.60 Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, dgutov@yandex.ru, =?utf-8?B?Sm/Dg8KjbyBUw4PCoXZvcmE=?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 18 02:56:53 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mcGxR-0004hl-8R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 Oct 2021 02:56:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34410 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcGxQ-0005KS-1C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:56:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcGwP-0004R1-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:55:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::633]:39783) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mcGwN-0002NG-IT; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 20:55:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id t21so2040898plr.6; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 17:55:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=YZtaCGCx+qY+60I6Cy65NJh+ySdeEFEbEByd+Ga9Bu8=; b=hJU6Xm1625hg594hIQe1nj9hpZw0pH/VB4jsiGA6AvCHZ7n8Of4uuvLB+A5nS7So9q WqvfVy0etxhxLVkl6hMm9a1ZvYDgixkYBAC05pvz4Od07AF78QlJXCtsGyR+Jab7Ewo2 s7g/SHGn8GI7edyqkUrK8+qX0RumFi+oEHNr0mnByI91+CyaLN2bfClTBzuzt+bt97uQ yhlb+NVKuwpYED6kgjB/ij4LOf9iH2YaYiUWEDoNKJK9TszT2yjSuuYZBGv520P83fYZ 0qYGRscLiQ3vv7qJMar/nKYMYoMFRsZ50CcmQmHiAaa4VWD12zqlBEdxUBhIFaKp+ijb shxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=YZtaCGCx+qY+60I6Cy65NJh+ySdeEFEbEByd+Ga9Bu8=; b=5miaf0fp8oTnvSZ9qzm4/4IWgSW/Vwwn05xpluazXpqLq91JMicuXjYY0owRke2XC8 OTVahLGDul0ky3qdcTPzu4MsFM+iLgJ5OKA8lu+7/g0FBbs0ak4HwH5Tz1Oa7Ajz18+X gPH19KREfOiPGTo9udhR2/zblMlePe05jr+ReP2o9H85js7571JbSNRN/hxZFHW6p+Yn 1p5ZFqlCoz1kgygXhOsaK+ztt8IM+CtsTGRfC0xVgW6CAC7LGwQBCqntcXYpbgnAAdU9 2kYP734QDZIiwWtkpwtoZziH66qkKLH+fKP8cXo3G2pfC67mQ9cLFizlUTDl+gZngImr sgtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531U+O4xWuExhK3HLCX9o17Qe6TpAC7zBqwV6C1ipvxJ44/uGAvi IMuKSpU++n874b815GzQWq8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9QXCQkon+2FmhPWILVBUeNRgevzTcivU2o1S5dkG1bk2moT0byVXWkAEiBWbfQ3JqM58hbA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:20d2:: with SMTP id ju18mr42193242pjb.66.1634518545430; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 17:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop ([124.149.106.234]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s30sm9958403pgn.38.2021.10.17.17.55.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 17 Oct 2021 17:55:44 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::633; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x633.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:277248 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Ok. I'm sorry I'm not following every message in this thread, but does this > > means that the Elisp LSP server is not wanted after all? > > Indeed, it does mean that. An Emacs Lisp LSP server won't help us > give Emacs whatever editing features for Emacs Lisp we want. All it > would help is adding those features to VScode. this does of course totally ignore the very valid point made by Eli re: off loading some processing to a separate process which could make Emacs more responsive and to some extent, overcome the inherent limitations imposed by a single threaded editor. It also seems like premature fear optimisation - the use case for an elisp LSP server for non-Emacs users is very small and the use case for those who want that who also use VSCode is even smaller. I'm not even convinced there is really a use case for editing elisp outside of Emacs (even with VS Code). You would still need to run emacs in order to execute/use the code. It could even be that having such a facility might result in more people actually using Emacs once they realise the potential of elisp and the power that gives an editor. It makes no sense to discourage such a development over fears which are based on such weak grounds.