From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Danny Freeman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:35:36 -0400 Message-ID: <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24302"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Danny Freeman , philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 13 15:56:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qVBZl-00064v-96 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:56:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVBYq-0003yc-I9; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:55:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVBYp-0003yE-78 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:55:15 -0400 Original-Received: from out-113.mta0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:1004:224b::71]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVBYl-0005mI-RH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 09:55:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dfreeman.email; s=key1; t=1691934906; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5OZt/syAEQ3zEDKXh/f2xv2FW1EJ5KRE5eIcC0gIehg=; b=UUi2U3uFXPvya4HT1KnYxDdF/XnFXloTawaOfw448e+giMeTLu8XddH+jnCn/s/TKOwiay GmHmZbV7Sb07283NFaRJuIwp20BGseCJb6dtCwgqbObOSE/YPIJBWNO1fbDaifjC/Oc59+ tNdFePKv7Hv9edkMduZ2/xijDNAzP38= X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:41d0:1004:224b::71; envelope-from=danny@dfreeman.email; helo=out-113.mta0.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308677 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Don't agree because they oppose that as a matter of principle, or > don't agree because they think it's too much work? A matter of principle. > I'm suggesting to look at the numbers and see who of the contributors > really needs to sign the legal paperwork. The results might surprise > us, but even if they don't, what possible harm could it do to collect > those LOC counts for each contributor, so that we all are on the same > page regarding the magnitude of the problem? > > Or let me turn the table ans ask: suppose no CA paperwork was needed: > would they still oppose adding these modes to Emacs? Yes. > Maybe the people involved don't really want to see this in core even > if possible. But if so, I guess they are unwilling to contribute the > package to Emacs, which makes this whole discussion futile and > pointless to begin with. Even if it's possible, I know the consensus is that we do not want the package in the core right now. I don't see that consensus changing. >> Clojure-mode and cider were never moved to the core for the same >> reason. I have already had this conversation with them a number of >> times but was unable to make a convincing argument. > > What are the counter-arguments? I will try to re-summarize the arguments in my own words: 1. Copy right assignment paper work is a barrier to contribution. 2. Cider/clojure-mode/inf-clojure/clojure-ts-mode are all developed by the same group of people. Keeping them under the same development model is easier to manage and facilitates coordinating changes across all the packages. Putting one of these in the core would make this harder. 3. Non-GNU ELPA makes it easy for people to get these packages without much trouble, since it one of the default package repositories the Emacs ships with. I agree with the second/third points. We would like to eventually have clojure-ts-mode be able to take the place of clojure-mode as a dependency of the other packages like cider. Keeping it under the same development model is the right choice to reach that goal IMO. Non-GNU ELPA and licensing with GPL3 is a good compromise, where we keep the clojure emacs development model, but still have things relatively easy to get started with out of the box. Thank you, -- Danny Freeman