From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2023 09:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: <87cyz3vaws.fsf@localhost> References: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29766"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jim Porter , ahyatt@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 11:06:47 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbddX-0007WJ-7E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:06:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdcd-0006IS-Vr; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 05:05:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdcb-0006IK-Lt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 05:05:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbdcX-00084O-0c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 05:05:48 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F0B240029 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:05:42 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693472742; bh=3ysU+OC8uCCyYXqrUzmzjWc6VjPtp/sh/4PQja8N4F8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=ZI4KrfWip/lYDoG3qjW9uDCuCqjawcXC0PkVA9/QaTgKRNiK/Y7qEHTU65Iu6ubRR FEXiwhlhgPoK3kIFtigC5loPJGmBAbZYDCuwZnnEGcTlJD4uK0O2TrwVdjY+bAtIAV Ne2hOH/tpk8BhS1sXDaG7YdtVWWA+DyUuNARd3EA8ede+7Qh4QDrtp15rn8ytQRLW9 uPVEZzA567xPWV+3z9V0iKV24Z2idnOVW6OiJ0y5gbqRqHOobDjQb5MRj/jzhEOGW4 lTh9h0zFfnVODn1ptRfU0hal8KLIq5gNDqLT3yCKvK0MVR1JGhyJ+bkFQxvIWkJVLz pe3K3358BfeNQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RbwHT5Cz6z6tws; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:05:41 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309610 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue entirely. > They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is > always unjust. > > See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html > for explanation. I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs have very limiting hardware requirements. For example, some LLMs require 64+Gbs of RAM to run: https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp#memorydisk-requirements. Not every PC is able to handle it, even if both the engine and the neural network weights are free. In such scenario, the base assumption you make in https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html may no longer hold for most users: "Suppose that any software tasks you might need for the job are implemented in free software, and you have copies, and you have whatever data you might need, as well as computers of whatever speed, functionality and capacity might be required." Thus, for many users (owning less powerful computers) LLMs as a service are going to be SaaS, not SaaSS. (Given that the SaaS LLM has free licence and users who choose to buy the necessary hardware retain their freedom to run the same LLM on their hardware.) -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at