From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:18:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87cyx8nur4.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0lqoo5x.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83msweu76j.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7gungi1.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83y1fxss9j.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13407"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:uW5AANgXvQoZzNp466zrR/J8djA= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 21 13:21:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quA2e-0003Fd-RH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 13:21:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quA25-0001Yv-D1; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 07:20:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qu94b-0000aa-O5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 06:19:13 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qu94Z-0000so-Uk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 06:19:13 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qu94Y-000A3J-05 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:19:10 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 07:20:39 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311647 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > What matters to us is that this unnecessary stuff is not > loaded in "emacs -Q", i.e. is not dumped and preloaded into > the bare uncustomized Emacs session. This lets users start > from the leanest possible Emacs, then load what they need, > without being "punished" by loads of stuff they never need > or want. In practice cl-lib will be loaded pretty much instantly even from minor use, including from the starting point that is the minimal 'emacs -Q'. But if we focus on this level in particular, defined by 'emacs -Q' and no use whatsoever on top of that, then cl-lib isn't loaded as you say. Because 'emacs -Q' should load as little as possible, it makes sense not to load cl-lib and, as has been showed, that doesn't happen either. So I suppose everyone is happy about that then. It will also be easy for you to keep it that way by not introducing it to anything that is loaded by 'emacs -Q'. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal