From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov <juri@jurta.org> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-j considered harmful (not really) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:12:45 +0200 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87bpisouau.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <912155b0911161437l7d5d5d3h790edff279fdad7a@mail.gmail.com> <7b501d5c0911161451s3e54e48dve127bd144f2affc8@mail.gmail.com> <877htpjwd4.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <912155b0911221236t7cebbb35n4bc10805bb685c1e@mail.gmail.com> <jwvvdh22btj.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <87zl6dk2pz.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <F531921AB3E74524B20637B314693C6B@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259083431 26890 80.91.229.12 (24 Nov 2009 17:23:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:23:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Per_Starb=E4ck'?= <per@starback.se>, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>, 'Deniz Dogan' <deniz.a.m.dogan@gmail.com> To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 24 18:23:43 2009 Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org> Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NCz77-00055S-Tn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:23:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43524 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCz77-0000xI-Db for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCyzV-0005mj-P2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:15:49 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NCyzQ-0005kA-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:15:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48894 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NCyzQ-0005k7-Nq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:15:44 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp-out3.starman.ee ([85.253.0.5]:36756 helo=mx1.starman.ee) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <juri@jurta.org>) id 1NCyzQ-0007j7-Ba for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:15:44 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by Amavisd-New at mx1.starman.ee Original-Received: from mail.starman.ee (82.131.34.225.cable.starman.ee [82.131.34.225]) by mx1.starman.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A813F413D; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:15:37 +0200 (EET) In-Reply-To: <F531921AB3E74524B20637B314693C6B@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:05:47 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.gnu.org/pipermail/emacs-devel> List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117689 Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/117689> > 2. I don't like the idea of binding `S-RET' to newline. The argument is > apparently that some users will be used to that and thus expect it. So what? > There are so many more things to learn about Emacs that might not be what > someone is used to. This is truly not a big deal, and it doesn't warrant > sacrificing a good key such as `S-RET'. That key is naturally associated with > RET, which is used often and has specific meanings in different contexts, so > `S-RET' can be used for a variant of what RET does in any given context (see #1 > wrt the minibuffer's RET). > > `C-j' _IS_ newline. OK, some people don't know that. But most programmers of > UNIX, Linux, C, etc. do know it, and others can surely learn it - no biggee. It > is elegant to use the key to self-insert, the same way it is elegant to use the > key `a' to insert an `a' character. Fine, but note that `C-j' already has different non-self-insert-newline semantics in other modes: In Emacs-Lisp mode, C-j runs the command newline-and-indent. In Lisp Interaction mode, C-j runs the command eval-print-last-sexp. In Editable Wdired mode, C-j runs the command ignore. BTW, see how users expect `C-q RET' to insert a newline in the minibuffer: http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=4956 -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/