From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:51:25 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87bpbfw6he.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <878w6vq7ew.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie> <580d5f23-e251-483f-9752-7e77b1ca2fb7@40g2000pry.googlegroups.com> <2a7dc148-e2cc-4681-9d8c-ccd1140aa6d7@j36g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <87wruco5yq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wrubfd8p.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <848w6ndwn0.fsf@cs.bham.ac.uk> <87y6ekevet.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <87bpbgq32f.fsf@unm.edu> <87hbl857xp.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu> <87pqzvd7yx.fsf@rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291834127 23658 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 18:48:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 18:48:47 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 19:48:44 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQP4E-0005pa-1v for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 19:48:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42090 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQP4D-0004OE-CR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 13:48:41 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool2.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:bRUk6fX853/Tju5Mz8EASLczEos= Original-Lines: 34 Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jun 2010 12:51:26 CEST Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: d4e3bd09.newsspool1.arcor-online.net Original-X-Trace: DXC=4F39e8\?FJWPU8j_I0DN6_ic==]BZ:af^4Fo<]lROoRQ<`=YMgDjhgR3?[3Qh@WYWX1_LiI6ENVa]3>5MOK` List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:75822 Archived-At: Uday S Reddy writes: > So, Mark has every right to blow up when things have changed > essentially. Emacs devs needed that lesson and, judging from Stefan's > last post, I think they continue to need it. Do you disagree? I should think that if your attitude towards Emacs developers seemed a bit less similar to manipulating unthinking apes into doing useful tricks according to your bidding, you might get a better return for the amount of stuff you write. If you want some response from the developers, the right way is to talk with them like normal human beings would rather than trying to view them as laboratory rats and discuss your findings about their reactions with other superior life forms. If you have questions about the intent behind a post of Stefan, the person to ask is Stefan. And trying to get a consensus about Stefan and other developers needing further lessons is not what I consider a discourse worthy for respectful human beings. The question is not how to manipulate Emacs developers into doing things the way you'd like them to do. The question is how to argue against the priorities and reasons (readily accessible in the developer list archives) that lead to the current decision, and come up with additional data that may shift the balance. "It makes obnoxious and insolent people raise a stink elsewhere" is, at least in my book, not a particularly important consideration for choosing defaults. So there is not much to be gained by you and in particular Mark trying to increase their efforts in that area. -- David Kastrup