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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: line-move-visual
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:51:25 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87bpbfw6he.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: hv2bgj$2k7$1@north.jnrs.ja.net

Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> writes:

> So, Mark has every right to blow up when things have changed
> essentially. Emacs devs needed that lesson and, judging from Stefan's
> last post, I think they continue to need it.  Do you disagree?

I should think that if your attitude towards Emacs developers seemed a
bit less similar to manipulating unthinking apes into doing useful
tricks according to your bidding, you might get a better return for the
amount of stuff you write.

If you want some response from the developers, the right way is to talk
with them like normal human beings would rather than trying to view them
as laboratory rats and discuss your findings about their reactions with
other superior life forms.

If you have questions about the intent behind a post of Stefan, the
person to ask is Stefan.  And trying to get a consensus about Stefan and
other developers needing further lessons is not what I consider a
discourse worthy for respectful human beings.

The question is not how to manipulate Emacs developers into doing things
the way you'd like them to do.  The question is how to argue against the
priorities and reasons (readily accessible in the developer list
archives) that lead to the current decision, and come up with additional
data that may shift the balance.

"It makes obnoxious and insolent people raise a stink elsewhere" is, at
least in my book, not a particularly important consideration for
choosing defaults.  So there is not much to be gained by you and in
particular Mark trying to increase their efforts in that area.

-- 
David Kastrup


  reply	other threads:[~2010-06-13 10:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 174+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031053170.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found] ` <hu925r$1b$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]   ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006031431510.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-04  7:59     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]       ` <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de>
2010-06-04 11:24         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-04 12:49           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:51             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 20:22               ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-10  1:23               ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]         ` <hualdf$eln$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 13:00           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-04 14:51             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-04 20:53               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-09 19:42               ` proposed keyboard-macro to record to elisp (was Re: line-move-visual) Joseph Brenner
2010-06-09 22:42                 ` LanX
     [not found]             ` <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie>
     [not found]               ` <hub2ss$is4$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-04 14:45                 ` line-move-visual Brendan Halpin
2010-06-04 17:49               ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-04 18:18                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 19:19                   ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
     [not found]                     ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041829210.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]                       ` <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-06  9:53                         ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-06  9:39                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                             ` <hug5rv$6d2$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-06 15:21                               ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-07  8:19                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
     [not found]                                   ` <m2fx0z46wj.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-07 16:20                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-06 15:43                               ` line-move-visual Alain Ketterlin
     [not found]                                 ` <87wrucccl3.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de>
2010-06-07  6:18                                   ` Wrong use of format=flowed antidote Uday S Reddy
2010-06-07 21:30                                 ` line-move-visual Joost Kremers
2010-06-06 18:17                               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]                                 ` <4C0C466E.3000803@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-07  2:53                                   ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-07  8:46                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-07 16:23                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-09 20:23                                   ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-07  8:39                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-10 10:12                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 13:43                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:17                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 19:53                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-10 15:44                                   ` line-move-visual despen
2010-06-10 22:02                                   ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2010-06-10 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-10 22:48                                   ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
     [not found]                                     ` <slrni2ja96.6pq.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
2010-06-29 11:09                                       ` HOWTO: Cowtow to old farts Xah Lee
2010-06-10 16:57                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-10 18:38                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-11 23:56                                     ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-12  0:17                                       ` line-move-visual Wojciech Meyer
2010-06-13 17:23                                         ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-13 20:56                                           ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14  0:42                                             ` line-move-visual Jim Diamond
2010-06-14 10:49                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14 17:16                                               ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-14 17:34                                                 ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:26                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:49                                                 ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                   ` <87sk4n3ocs.fsf@rapttech.com.au>
2010-06-16 14:43                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                             ` <m2k4q18od5.fsf@softwarematters.org>
     [not found]                                               ` <jwvaaqxbcca.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-15  6:54                                                 ` line-move-visual Pascal J. Bourguignon
2010-06-15  8:42                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-15  9:30                                                     ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15  9:38                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 13:45                                                     ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 13:57                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                         ` <jwvbpbb6oyk.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>
2010-06-16 18:04                                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]                                                       ` <hv8gvf$98o$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                         ` <hv8iog$313e$1@colin2.muc.de>
2010-06-15 19:37                                                           ` line-move-visual Leo
     [not found]                                                             ` <871vc8dpga.fsf@imladris.arda>
2010-06-16 12:37                                                               ` Emacs language Leo
2010-06-17  8:00                                                                 ` Teemu Likonen
2010-06-15 21:04                                                           ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 15:33                                                             ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-17  8:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16 14:33                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <db13ae67-9d9a-4556-9a7c-8f86de63011f@b4g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
2010-07-19 22:41                                                             ` minor mode on/off/toggle with t/nil question Stefan Monnier
2010-06-15 16:51                                                     ` line-move-visual Alan Mackenzie
2010-06-16 12:43                                                       ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-15 19:17                                                     ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:49                                                       ` espresso-mode (was: line-move-visual) Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                     ` <4C17FE36.30102@thadlabs.com>
2010-06-15 22:45                                                       ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-15 23:31                                                         ` line-move-visual Thad Floryan
2010-06-16  3:30                                                           ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-16 16:14                                                             ` line-move-visual Xah Lee
2010-06-16 23:23                                                           ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
     [not found]                                                           ` <b1e84c4a-e74e-4ace-9b0f-a00b370eb61d@q39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
2010-06-16 23:45                                                             ` Keyboard Hardware's Influence on Keyboard Shortcut Design Xah Lee
2010-06-16 14:52                                                         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
     [not found]                                                           ` <87r5k6sqg2.fsf@unm.edu>
2010-06-17  2:25                                                             ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-17  3:51                                                               ` line-move-visual Chris F.A. Johnson
2010-06-17  9:03                                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-20 18:42                                                               ` line-move-visual B. T. Raven
2010-06-20 17:08                                                 ` line-move-visual B. T. Raven
2010-06-12  4:18                                       ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12  4:37                                         ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  8:30                                           ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-12  8:40                                             ` line-move-visual Evans Winner
2010-06-12  9:30                                             ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-12 12:30                                               ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:09                                           ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-13  1:41                                             ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-13 10:22                                               ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-13 10:51                                                 ` David Kastrup [this message]
2010-06-13 11:32                                                   ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-14  0:46                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv4nkd$quq$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-15  9:20                                                     ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-15 11:29                                                       ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-16  9:29                                                         ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-14  4:48                                                 ` line-move-visual Tim X
     [not found]                                                 ` <m2iq5nw4pj.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                   ` <hv2htd$4li$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
     [not found]                                                     ` <m239wravxb.fsf@gmail.com>
2010-06-16  2:11                                                       ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-16  6:46                                                         ` line-move-visual Helmut Eller
2010-06-13 10:36                                             ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-16  2:19                                               ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                                         ` <huvsd5$8pm$1@north.jnrs.ja.net>
2010-06-12 12:25                                           ` line-move-visual Tim X
2010-06-12 20:17                                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
2010-06-10 19:57                                   ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-13 12:46                                     ` line-move-visual Uday S Reddy
2010-06-09 21:38                             ` line-move-visual Joseph Brenner
     [not found]                               ` <slrni10ga0.t64.Jim.Diamond@jdiamond-nb.acadiau.ca>
2010-06-10 16:15                                 ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 17:52       ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 18:28         ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
     [not found]           ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006041808540.77397@hsinghsing.panda.com>
     [not found]             ` <878w6truxc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz>
2010-06-06  2:25               ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
     [not found]               ` <87typc9dt8.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu>
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006091815150.93771@hsinghsing.panda.com>
2010-06-10  7:12                   ` line-move-visual David Kastrup
2010-06-04 21:16         ` line-move-visual Stefan Monnier
2010-06-05  1:29           ` line-move-visual Mark Crispin
2010-06-04 13:20     ` line-move-visual sable
2009-07-09 18:12 line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10  4:26 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:43   ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10  5:48     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  6:14       ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-10  6:58         ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:13           ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 10:10             ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  8:43           ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  8:57             ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10  9:04               ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 10:32                 ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  9:08               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10  9:13               ` line-move-visual joakim
2009-07-10  9:22                 ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 16:22                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 17:20                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 17:40                         ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10  9:52                 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 11:35               ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 13:38                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 16:11                   ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 18:01                     ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 18:16                       ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-11 19:34                   ` line-move-visual Juri Linkov
2009-07-10 13:56                 ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:07                   ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 20:29                     ` line-move-visual Lennart Borgman
2009-07-10 15:43               ` line-move-visual Alfred M. Szmidt
2009-07-10 15:56             ` line-move-visual Sean O'Rourke
2009-07-10  9:14           ` line-move-visual Tassilo Horn
2009-07-10  9:56             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 10:22               ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-10 16:11                 ` line-move-visual Drew Adams
2009-07-10 10:36               ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 10:56                 ` line-move-visual Eli Zaretskii
2009-07-10 11:07                   ` line-move-visual Christian Faulhammer
2009-07-10 11:29                   ` line-move-visual Ulrich Mueller
2009-07-10 18:15                     ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10 20:40     ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-11  1:58       ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-11  2:29         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:44           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11 18:30             ` line-move-visual Richard Stallman
2009-07-10  6:12   ` line-move-visual Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-07-10 21:19     ` line-move-visual Johan Myréen
2009-07-10 22:14       ` line-move-visual Scot Becker
2009-07-11  1:34       ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  2:46       ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-11  5:25         ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  5:49           ` line-move-visual Kenichi Handa
2009-07-11  6:13             ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-11  9:22           ` line-move-visual Bastien
2009-07-10  4:35 ` line-move-visual Miles Bader
2009-07-10 13:31 ` line-move-visual Chong Yidong
2009-07-11  6:42 ` line-move-visual Andrey Paramonov
2009-07-11  7:21   ` line-move-visual Teemu Likonen

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