From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-d deleting region considered harmful Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:30:07 +0900 Message-ID: <87bp7r51eo.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83lj6zz9o0.fsf@gnu.org> <87r5gp5hqv.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285032644 647 80.91.229.12 (21 Sep 2010 01:30:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:30:44 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 21 03:30:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oxrgu-0001eo-Rm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:30:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57693 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oxrgu-0004ww-3T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:30:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=51937 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Oxrgm-0004vQ-EJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:30:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oxrgh-0007ma-P0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:30:32 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:51267) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Oxrgh-0007m7-IH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:30:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxrgZ-0001Vt-VQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:30:19 +0200 Original-Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:30:19 +0200 Original-Received: from miles by 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:30:19 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Cancel-Lock: sha1:TpFQWp/uWxWE5hdYRogL8BAHTiA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130556 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > But it's also the only such change that really matters for > newbie-friendless. > > I am not convinced it does. The case in which newbies would expect > Backspace to delete the region is after mouse-selecting it, No. Newbies actually use the keyboard too, you know (even if they're not used to Emacs)... Anyway, having mouse-regions be "magic" is confusingly inconsistent, and a bad UI generally. That was a big wart on Emacs in the past. It's obviously impossible to have perfect defaults, because we're trying to unify a widely disparate set of user experiences into one UI. A change that makes things better for some often makes others unhappy. There's little we can do other than trying to minimize unhappiness, but at least we can (1) keep things customizable, so those that just can't deal with a change can easily find relief, and (2) try to make Emacs' UI broadly consistent, so that's it's at least easy for users to form a mental-model of how things work (and easy to document)... -Miles -- Carefully crafted initial estimates reward you not only with reduced computational effort, but also with understanding and increased self-esteem. -- Numerical methods in C, Chapter 9. "Root Finding and Nonlinear Sets of Equations"