From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Antoine Levitt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `C-b' is backward-char, `left' is left-char - why? Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 00:23:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87boynkcjp.fsf@gmail.com> References: <6F4054004B154CFB8E2753172D316C13@us.oracle.com> <83tycfc0l0.fsf@gnu.org> <392401A7079D400E86B791262598387D@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1306535174 16727 80.91.229.12 (27 May 2011 22:26:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 22:26:14 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 28 00:26:10 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5Ts-0003Fq-Ve for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 00:26:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58737 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5Ts-0006df-D1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 May 2011 18:26:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:50131) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5Tq-0006da-3y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2011 18:26:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5Tp-000779-1v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2011 18:26:06 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:58585) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5To-000773-LG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2011 18:26:05 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QQ5Tn-0003Ay-AZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 May 2011 00:26:03 +0200 Original-Received: from ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net ([78.233.218.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 28 May 2011 00:26:03 +0200 Original-Received: from antoine.levitt by ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 28 May 2011 00:26:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:139786 Archived-At: 28/05/11 00:08, Drew Adams >> > Why not have a minor mode for the bidi stuff >> >> Bidi cannot be a minor mode, because bidi reordering for display >> should happen automatically whenever there are right-to-left >> characters in a buffer. Minor modes don't work that way. > > That it should automatically do things for people who want it I can understand. > But for someone who never wants it? > > More importantly, what prevents a minor mode, which could even be enabled by > default for all I care, from doing just what you said: automatically...? Turn > on the mode and you get what you've provided - everything. Turn it off and you > get what Emacs has provided for years, limited as it might be. > > I don't see how using a minor mode would prevent you from doing anything at all > that you want or need to do. Can you please explain that? At least having a > mode for this would give users a way to turn all of its effects off (hopefully - > at least the key hijacking I'm referring to). > > IOW, if your `left-char' command makes sense only when bidi minor mode is turned > on, then it would not be made to hijack `left' except when that mode is on. > Minor modes can have their own keymaps, and if need be they can also be made to > change/restore other bindings (i.e. in different maps) when you turn them > on/off. I don't want to get into the heated exchanges (to put things kindly) that seem to usually result from your posts, but why do you need "C-f" and "right" to be the same thing? If it's for some generic code (for instance, preview.el has the variable preview-auto-reveal that needs to know that C-f and "right" both enter the preview), then it needs to accomodate this use case for people who do use bidi, and if it's for private code, surely you can rebind them (which takes just one more line in your .emacs than turning off the minor mode). So what's the point of changing stuff that works fine and adding a trivial minor mode that is going to pollute our already crowded C-h m?