From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Tromey Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:48:23 -0700 Message-ID: <87bop6g054.fsf@fleche.redhat.com> References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87zkcubbfc.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87vcnibb9t.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87r4y6bams.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <4F3198CE.9000900@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328888937 7851 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2012 15:48:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:48:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: egnartsms@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, nix@esperi.org.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dancol@dancol.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 10 16:48:55 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RvsiT-0000fj-8K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:48:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39708 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvsiS-0000MY-Fz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57893) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvsiM-0000MG-EI for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvsiI-0004Iz-GL for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:1674) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RvsiD-0004Id-Ry; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:38 -0500 Original-Received: from int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1AFmSTn022705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:28 -0500 Original-Received: from ns3.rdu.redhat.com (ns3.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.255.199]) by int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q1AFmRLr019802; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:27 -0500 Original-Received: from barimba (ovpn01.gateway.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.9.1]) by ns3.rdu.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q1AFmNSd015980; Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:48:23 -0500 X-Attribution: Tom In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:30:00 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.22 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.132.183.28 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148434 Archived-At: >>>>> "RMS" == Richard Stallman writes: RMS> * We would have to document the CL functions in the manual, which is a RMS> big increase in the size. It is not that that is totally intolerable, RMS> it's that the benefit is not worth the burden. >> Why does this consideration not apply to EIEIO? RMS> Why would it apply to EIEIO? Because to me EIEIO seems to fit the same criteria as cl.el: it is pretty big, it is derived from Common Lisp, and it uses Common Lisp names (so intrudes on the "user namespace"). RMS> I don't think I ever saw a program that used EIEIO. CEDET uses it. This was a major feature addition to Emacs. Presumably many people use it. But this discussion is also about what elisp writers may do, not what they do already. Tom