From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philipp Haselwarter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs users a dying breed? Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:33:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87bokaw9dh.fsf@nzebook.haselwarter.org> References: <9809cd1a-9086-4022-af79-732fb6149f20@q5g2000pba.googlegroups.com> <87mx3vzqd7.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <87ipejzjce.fsf@friendface.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <4FE45F11.2060105@easy-emacs.de> <874nq35wh3.wl%lists@groll.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340451239 27073 80.91.229.3 (23 Jun 2012 11:33:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:33:59 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 23 13:33:59 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SiObD-0007WA-UH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:33:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36020 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiObD-0006cI-UO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:33:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39466) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiOb8-0006c9-9j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:33:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiOb6-0007pR-NT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:33:49 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:44078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SiOb6-0007pK-GP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:33:48 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SiOb2-0007RK-FG for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:33:44 +0200 Original-Received: from 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net ([78.113.116.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:33:44 +0200 Original-Received: from philipp by 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2012 13:33:44 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 21 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.116.113.78.rev.sfr.net X-NSA-Fodder: DNDO White Water enigma Pipe bomb jihad Organized crime X-Tom-Swifty: "I have to finish sorting these writing utensils, " Tom said pensively. User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:gpJQkcATb54KVbsSZj2OSqkxv30= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85388 Archived-At: I very much disagree, one of the things emacs is most frequently accused of is bloat. Overhauling some of the defaults might be worth discussing, but adding even more code to the core distribution seems to be the wrong approach. IMO Emacs should focus on providing the core - an editing engine and a lisp interpreter - and let the user decide which plugins he wants to run. I'd even go as far as claiming that currently there's already too much stuff included by default. 24.1 has package.el included, there's no good reason to ship every copy of emacs with several mail clients, org-mode, two irc clients, and many other very domain-specific features. Don't misinterpret this, I'm glad these packages exist and use them heavily, but most occasional emacs users I know don't. The question "what should Emacs be?" has been raised many times, and no consensus could be reached. So cutting it down to the core and letting each user decide seems like a reasonable consequence. -- Philipp Haselwarter