From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unibyte characters, strings, and buffers Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:42:05 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87bnwllcmq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <831txozsqa.fsf@gnu.org> <83ppl7y30l.fsf@gnu.org> <87r45nouvx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8361myyac6.fsf@gnu.org> <87a9capqfr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5335C336.3080108@dancol.org> <87mwg9nti0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83ioqxdzax.fsf@gnu.org> <87ha6hngak.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83k3bacs02.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppl1n2k2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396338169 16302 80.91.229.3 (1 Apr 2014 07:42:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 07:42:49 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 01 09:42:43 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtLB-0005l4-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:42:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52990 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtLA-0000xq-Kg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:42:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38149) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtKy-0000oF-G8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:42:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtKs-0002z0-F0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:42:24 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:51430) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtKs-0002yf-9I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:42:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WUtKr-0002zb-4S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:42:17 +0200 Original-Received: from x2f480d1.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.244.128.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:42:17 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by x2f480d1.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2014 09:42:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 60 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f480d1.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:jCR7614hPGnR6koPIW9/Pn6Wr5c= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:171242 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Please show your references for that. IANAL, but just by reading > > related stuff on the Internet, I arrive to the opposite conclusion. > > Hey, I'm perfectly happy to go on that kind of evidence; the projects > I mostly work on don't require assignment and I see no need for it. > But we're talking here about Emacs, which is extremely careful about > these things. Well, I remember a tense moment in XEmacs history where a major past contributor stated that he would rescind permission to redistribute his work in XEmacs when XEmacs was going to get relicensed under GPLv3 (I think it was GPLv3 but it may have been some other licensing change originating at GNU Emacs). XEmacs developers are on reasonably good speaking terms to resolve such a conflict. In particular if one can point to the FSF as being the "real" guilty party and external to the project. Emacs does not have that excuse. But that's tangential: you don't just have to secure the goodwill of important contributors. Given the current laws, you have to secure the goodwill of the contributors' heirs 90 years or something after their death, people who are not even born yet. Good luck with that. The single biggest deficiency that corporations have over single persons is that they are immortal. Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: Σίβυλλα τί θέλεις; respondebat illa: ἀποθανεῖν θέλω. Would it have been Walt Disney's will that many of the motion pictures of his youth are rotting away and getting irretrievably lost because the company bearing his name is fighting against legislation allowing them to be copied (and the costs recuperated by distribution) before they fall apart? What would he or other people think if they were told that the future of our cultural heritage and the laws governing it is determined between the two major competing power houses of Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny these days? How sad is that? At any rate, nobody knows what his heirs will do 90 years after his death. But corporations don't really die, and neither do contracts. And that gives Emacs the best shot we have not to be killed by lawyers a hundred years from now. Which makes it free to grow into something else, like culture should be able to and no longer can. Well, this mail has definitely grown into something else. Sue me. -- David Kastrup