From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: package and testing rant (was Re: package.el, auto-installation, and auto-removal) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:18:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87bnobo6mp.fsf@zigzag.favinet> References: <87a943umku.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ppcvm7fj.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vbmndk46.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87wq72ls2h.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87k332lnn3.fsf_-_@ferrier.me.uk> <878ujhtx89.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8761eki9ym.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> <87sihogkt0.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415866522 19898 80.91.229.3 (13 Nov 2014 08:15:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:15:22 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 13 09:15:15 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XopYg-0008E3-KB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:15:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58269 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XopYg-0000Jk-3q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:15:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39641) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XopYW-00007a-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:15:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XopYQ-0006gs-NQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:15:04 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp207.alice.it ([82.57.200.103]:44771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XopYQ-0006gd-D9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:14:58 -0500 Original-Received: from zigzag.favinet (87.4.66.93) by smtp207.alice.it (8.6.060.28) id 5440E61D063EC082 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:15:00 +0100 Original-Received: from ttn by zigzag.favinet with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XopcR-00044B-8X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:19:07 +0100 Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:40:34 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 82.57.200.103 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176879 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable () Stefan Monnier () Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:40:34 -0500 I guess I just don't know what's weird about it. Well, non-trivial packages require "make dist" to actually DTRT. That step presupposes "make" (and for conscientious authors, "make check"). These are visisble steps and their machinery is transparent to the authors. For the user, the steps are "configure" and "make install". (All this you probably know, i expect.) For trivial packages, it's possible to conflate many of these explicit steps, and that's what the GNU ELPA system design does. The weirdness is that this over-specialization is a step backward from the Generally Accepted Packaging Practice. It gives up the benefits of the "separate compilation" model and forces the "interpreter" (phase-less) model on everyone. I was initially enthusiastic about "bump version to release" but now have come to the conclusion that i prefer GAPP. I feel more comfortable being responsible for "make check" and "make dist", and delivering a fully-elaborated package, thus owning (and learning from) my errors and not pointing fingers. Call me a control freak, i won't deny it. Besides, philosophically, when "make dist" is on the server, then GNU ELPA is effectively SaaSS. 'Nuff said... =2D-=20 Thien-Thi Nguyen GPG key: 4C807502 (if you're human and you know it) read my lisp: (responsep (questions 'technical) (not (via 'mailing-list))) =3D> nil --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRkaXMACgkQZwMiJEyAdQKp7QCfaotD6fbNEXL7xHXrVApFtQHE PfMAoJqjDmX+7VuxANofwB3LvhcyMo+a =XA7i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--