From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:17:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87bnhrl5xs.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <554C9356.5000204@gmail.com> <20150508125314086261755@bob.proulx.com> <87bnhuc177.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y4kwcyti.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431343058 769 80.91.229.3 (11 May 2015 11:17:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:17:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 13:17:31 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YrliE-0006Dr-1m for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 13:17:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36553 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrliD-0006rQ-2Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:17:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36965) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrlhv-0006ne-Ow for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:17:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrlhq-0000ye-TM for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:17:11 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.12]:32971) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrlhq-0000wy-OV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:17:06 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrlhp-0006wT-9n; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:17:05 +0100 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrlho-0007Ob-3Z; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:17:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87y4kwcyti.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> (Pascal J. Bourguignon's message of "Sun, 10 May 2015 16:05:45 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.12 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104367 Archived-At: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" writes: >> Now if the cursor-keys didn't work it would not be so bad >> And ideal would be for them to work AND be documented >> But works and NOT documented/demoed in tutorial... and there are serious >> allegations of ATTITUDE! > > I can't believe it. Do you teach retards? I teach intelligent, interested and engaged students, whom it is my pleasure and privilege to introduce to programming, and show them how to take charge of their own computers, and have the computers work for them, rather than the other way around. I am sure that Rusi is in the same position. Over time, the experiences of people change, and the knowledge that they bring with them changes. This makes some things harder to understand, some things easier. For instance, I have the majority of my students got to grips with git in a day or two (which I was not expecting), something which has caused grief here. But running "hello world" in python in Emacs not easy. "Eval buffer" -- what's that then? And even once you've done that, where has it gone, because the shell isn't visible. Phil