From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: using use-package Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:40:34 +0100 Message-ID: <87bnebnyyl.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <67cb463e-41f6-4f37-91ee-15d0fdb5ba9f@googlegroups.com> <20150812180621.32265.2E673ABE@ahiker.mooo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439469679 18844 80.91.229.3 (13 Aug 2015 12:41:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 13 14:41:10 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProe-0000Qj-RB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:41:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42430 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProe-0000lz-2y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:41:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41864) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProL-0000Nz-V8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:40:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProH-0002lE-M6 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:40:45 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:36943) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProH-0002jq-33 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 08:40:41 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProE-0000lR-Ff; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:40:38 +0100 Original-Received: from cpc6-benw10-2-0-cust45.gate.cable.virginm.net ([92.238.179.46] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ZProE-0004rq-LK; Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:40:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:13:42 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:106530 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> Stefan is saying that many packages do things _wrong_. > > Actually, no. What I was saying is that several use-package features > are only useful if a package is poorly packaged. Yes, or not packaged at all, or in development to be packaged in the future or where the developer of a package which is well-packaged wants to provide an option configuration for development time on his machine. And this is some features, not but all of them. > In the mean time, it became apparent that the reason for that is that > I assume people (will) use ELPA to install their packages, whereas > use-package was designed for the case where packages are installed some > other way. It became apparent that the original developer of use-package does not use ELPA, but not the only developer, nor many of the users of use-package. > Hence use-package partly overlaps with ELPA, and in those parts that > overlaps, the work is done differently: in ELPA the work is done by the > packager, whereas in use-package the work is done by the end-user (since > there's no packager doing that work for him). In the case of this form, can you tell me how the package is poorly packaged, or how this is overlapping with ELPA? (use-package pabbrev :ensure t :defer t :config (global-pabbrev-mode)) It does overlap with package.el -- as it obviates the need to use the GUI to package.el, since this will install pabbrev if necessary. But overlapping with ELPA? It seems to me that it is working entirely with ELPA. The installation step uses package.el to achieve it's ends. Even (use-package org-mode) is useful since it gives performance data on start up that (require 'org-mode) does not. Phil