From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 9ce1d38: Use curved quotes in core elisp diagnostics Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:44:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87bne4fc7s.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <55D1043C.3030909@yandex.ru> <55D15899.2070105@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817121513.GA2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D21191.8070202@cs.ucla.edu> <20150817173551.GB2634@acm.fritz.box> <55D29EA6.2020009@cs.ucla.edu> <20150818103921.GA2262@acm.fritz.box> <55D36132.1020900@cs.ucla.edu> <20150818171715.GD2262@acm.fritz.box> <55D3869E.30302@cs.ucla.edu> <20150818204211.GF2262@acm.fritz.box> <55D3A641.7040409@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1439937973 2301 80.91.229.3 (18 Aug 2015 22:46:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:46:13 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 19 00:46:05 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpdm-0000ut-Ol for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:45:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59842 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpdl-0004dD-Ua for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:45:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58539) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpdB-0004cw-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:45:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpd8-0007sX-EP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:45:21 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39300) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpd8-0007sR-7f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:45:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZRpd4-0000N1-Vm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:45:15 +0200 Original-Received: from 122.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.43.64.122]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:45:14 +0200 Original-Received: from ofv by 122.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:45:14 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 40 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 122.red-83-43-64.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:7L866fiOtJyWNQlxvN0XnskZVKo= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188912 Archived-At: Paul Eggert writes: > Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> Nobody having to type "Ó" on a Spanish keyboard layout >> would have any trouble. > > Spanish keyboards typically do not have "Ó", so your restrictive > definition of "working" would say that "Ó" is trouble even on a > Spanish keyboard. Every Spaniard who ever used a typewriter knows that accented letters are composed like this: `o. This is not a problem at all and the approach generalizes to others cases, such as French and Catalonian, which have more accent types than Spanish. An Spaniard would have no problem at all typing the French è, for instance. Furthermore, an Spaniard would have no problem using an USA keyboard with the USA-international input method: we quickly figure out that ñ is ~n. However, I need to learn how to write the curly quotes, and then remember the method. This makes things harder for us occasional contributors, not to mention beginners. I'm pretty sure that copy&paste will become more popular with this convention. I admit that curly quotes are nicer, but that's easily achievable: make them appear on *Help* and other buffers that shows docstrings. Dmitry suggests this, and his comment about modern markup languages restricting themselves to ASCII is something to think about. If your goal is to make Emacs more Unicode-friendly, this is not the way to go. Identify the problematic areas, taking feedback from users like Chad Brown, and then proceed to fix those shortcomings with those users acting as "customers" (i.e. judges of the proposed solution.) I admit that I'm intrigued by your plan about how this change will initiate an evolution on Emacs input system that will make easier to type exotic characters (defining "exotic" by "something that it is infrequent in your daily usage.") Maybe describing the specific user-visible improvements that this change will help to bring into reality would buy you more support.