From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:36:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87bnc4pgx1.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <561A19AB.5060001@cumego.com> <87io6dl0h0.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83vbadp69k.fsf@gnu.org> <87egh1kx83.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83r3l1p4fn.fsf@gnu.org> <87a8rpkvsu.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83pp0kq0h7.fsf@gnu.org> <561B3038.8090405@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444642618 4312 80.91.229.3 (12 Oct 2015 09:36:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 09:36:58 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 12 11:36:51 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZXG-0007iX-93 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:36:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54133 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZXF-0006Xf-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:36:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZXB-0006XY-B1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:36:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZX7-0000Tb-8J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:36:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([2a01:5e00:2:52::8]:55637) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZlZX7-0000TP-2V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 05:36:41 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A7C96F2005 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:36:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gd6GYNVbZCW2 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:36:34 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (103-115.echostar.pl [213.156.103.115]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A68B16F2003 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:36:34 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a01:5e00:2:52::8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191307 Archived-At: On 2015-10-12, at 10:12, Steinar Bang wrote: >>>>>> Paul Eggert : > >> The TIOBE Index isn't a perfect measure, of course. And I am not >> advocating that we rewrite the Emacs core in Java. > > (FWIW it's already been done once, but the project doesn't seem to have > been touched for a decade... http://jemacs.sourceforge.net/ (unless it > has moved to a new home...? I found a 4 year old fork on github, but it hasn't > preserved the old jemacs history, so it is hard to see what it > adds... also the last commit was 4 years ago https://github.com/shadgregory/JEmacs )) For the record: there was once a project to rewrite TeX in Java (it was before the mankind learned that Java was not the solution to all the humanity's problems). It even got some funding (as in, real money). The project is now considered a failure: while they /did/ produce a working, 99.9% compatible TeX replacement, it was an order of magnitude slower (or so), and the main goal - to have a TeX replacement written in a more modular fashion, so that it would be easier to e.g. experiment with various line/page-breaking algorithms and extensions to TeX - was not achieved: nobody actually performed those experiments. (There aren't even many traces on the internet; while you can read about this "New Typesetting System" in a few places, the actual code is lost. That is a pity, imho, since I hear that Java is much faster nowadays than 10+ years ago, so it might work now.) Another project, LuaTeX, took off and can be now considered very successful. This project, however, has different goals (instead of replacing TeX with something different, they embedded Lua in TeX, and then opend up a possibility to reimplement many parts of TeX in Lua. In effect, it seems that the goal of NTS - to be able to easily experiment with TeX internals - was achieved, though in a completely different way). Also, it is run by a small group of dedicated individuals, and my guess is that one of the reasons of its success is Hans Hagen and his team. One, they are exceptionally smart people. Two, they /think/ and /design/ before coding, not the other way round. (Not to say that Emacs devs don't do it, but the majority of the software world apparently got this wrong.) Last but not least, Hans' company is based around ConTeXt and LuaTeX, so he has a /really/ strong motivation to have this system working smoothly: he /actually relies on it for his income/. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz University