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From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer)
To: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
Cc: "Ludovic Courtès" <ludo@gnu.org>, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:32:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87bnbxwgd3.fsf@T420.taylan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87twpppgtq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:04:17 +0200")

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

> taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich "Bayırlı/Kammer") writes:
>
>> I haven't followed the whole discussion but I'd like to remind that
>> GuileEmacs already runs currently, and from what I know none of the
>> problems it faces are related to string handling.  It just lets Elisp
>> strings be a separate data type.
>>
>> I guess the discussion was about rewriting bigger parts of Emacs in
>> Guile-Scheme, which might be one possible way to go forward but not
>> necessary.
>>
>> Most of the benefits in e.g. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacs
>> apply without having to solve the string problem.  Specifically, from
>> the overview section, the first two points and half of the third should
>> apply I think.
>
> The first two points concern efficiency.  Emacs is _all_ about working
> with strings, and the last report of GuileEmacs stated something like
> GuileEmacs being about an order of magnitude slower specifically because
> of having to special-case Emacs strings and buffers.
>
> Emacs is first and foremost an editor.  Substantial increases of
> efficiency in most general programming areas at the cost of abysmal
> performance in text processing are not going to make the race.

I think you're misremembering.

It might be that you have strings in mind because not being able to
serialize Elisp strings means having to compile everything at each
startup, making startup slow.  And maybe you have buffers in mind
because buffer-local variables and other weird binding semantics of
Elisp need special handling.

Neither is related to the run-time performance of string handling, of
course.

Hmm, what would be a good benchmark of Elisp string handling that won't
be affected by the performance of dynamic binding of variables or other
such things?  I'd like to just test it instead of hypothesize.

Taylan



  reply	other threads:[~2015-10-17 17:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 250+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-11  8:11 Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11  8:17 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 22:02   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:14     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:49         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:51         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 23:12         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-12  2:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 15:35       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 21:30         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-12 20:01     ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-11  8:54 ` Alexis
2015-10-11 10:53   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11 11:23 ` Thomas Koch
2015-10-11 13:11   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:36     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 13:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:55         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 14:03           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 12:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 12:59 ` Fabrice Popineau
2015-10-11 17:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 18:32   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 19:43       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:53         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 20:13           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12  2:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12  3:59               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12  8:12                 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12  9:36                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 10:20                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:23               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 16:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:00         ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13  2:36           ` Rustom Mody
2015-10-12 10:56       ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-10-11 21:52     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12  7:14       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:48     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 13:22       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 14:18         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:04           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 18:24         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:21           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 19:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 19:58                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:11                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:42                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 20:46                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 14:57                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:22                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:40                         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13 16:49                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:40               ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13  4:18                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  6:00                   ` immerrr again
2015-10-13 14:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  1:12               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 10:01               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:20                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 15:04                     ` Chris Patti
2015-10-14 15:34                       ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-16 12:25                   ` Guile-Emacs Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 12:03                 ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 13:30                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 14:55                     ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-16 15:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:25                     ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 15:51                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 14:29                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 15:08                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:28                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 16:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:31                       ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 16:11                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 19:34                           ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-16 19:51                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 19:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 20:51                           ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17  5:27                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17  7:20                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17  9:44                               ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17 10:24                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 10:22                                   ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-18 11:33                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 12:54                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 13:17                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 14:40                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:31                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 16:19                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:37                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 16:44                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:06                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:11                                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:52                                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 18:23                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 18:35                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 18:53                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 19:03                                                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 19:13                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 19:35                                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 19:49                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19  7:59                                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 10:50                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 10:59                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 11:31                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 12:04                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 11:24                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  4:18                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20  7:36                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 10:17                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 12:26                                                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:53                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 17:43                                                                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19 18:06                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  2:46                                                                       ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19  8:46                                                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  9:39                                                                 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-19  5:33                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-26 11:01                                                             ` Alexis
2015-10-18 19:16                                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 22:38                                                     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-10-20  7:34                                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:40                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:56                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:46                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19  7:45                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-17 15:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 16:25                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:43                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:00                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:48                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:03                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:08                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:10                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:31                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-17 17:04                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:32                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer [this message]
2015-10-17 17:42                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 18:34                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:15                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 21:22                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18  0:23                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 15:53                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-18 16:58               ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-18 17:40                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 20:47                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  3:55                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-20  7:33                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  8:27               ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13  8:52                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-13 10:19                 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 19:45                     ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:09                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:43                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 16:06                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:20                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 21:22                     ` emacs IDE features (was: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language) Andrés Ramírez
2015-10-13 22:13                       ` emacs IDE features John Wiegley
2015-10-14 11:11                         ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-16 23:13                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-17  7:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 23:51                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18  0:48                                 ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18  2:34                                   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-10-18 17:05                                     ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18 17:31                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:21                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 16:37                                   ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-10-18 16:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:30                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 10:30                             ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-20  6:56                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 22:10                     ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language John Wiegley
2015-10-12 23:00             ` Camm Maguire
2015-10-13  1:38               ` Alexis
2015-10-13  1:40                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13 23:34             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13 23:55               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  5:28           ` Ken Raeburn
2015-10-13  5:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 10:13               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14  1:43                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13  6:49             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-12 13:50       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:17         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:35           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 16:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 22:39           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 11:27             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 11:46               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:02                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 12:21                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:22                   ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-13 13:52                     ` John Yates
2015-10-13 14:30                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:26                         ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-13 16:40                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 14:38                       ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 13:06                   ` Sergey Organov
2015-10-13 14:19                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 14:39                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 15:53                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:09                             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 16:23                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:31                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:42                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:32               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 16:13                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 21:02                   ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14  8:15                     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 13:28                       ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14 16:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-14 10:22                     ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 10:56                       ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:14                         ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 11:33                         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 12:12                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:46                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 12:29                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:21                     ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-14 16:05                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:13               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 15:09       ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12 15:24         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:24         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 16:31           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:20         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-13 12:02           ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-13 23:38             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-14  1:46             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-14 13:08               ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-12 16:18       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:47         ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12 17:59           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 21:28       ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 18:36   ` Przemysław Wojnowski

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