From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Using R-mail in Emacs Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 18:02:21 -0700 Message-ID: <87bm8jpxb6.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <86worocffa.fsf@zoho.com> <86o9czder0.fsf@zoho.com> <86in36df2x.fsf@zoho.com> <86efdud83a.fsf@zoho.com> <86a7oicu8u.fsf@zoho.com> <20180920180910704706461@bob.proulx.com> <87efdny97i.fsf@bobnewell.net> <20180925170550763544528@bob.proulx.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1538010065 16489 195.159.176.226 (27 Sep 2018 01:01:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 01:01:05 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 27 03:01:01 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g5Kft-0004Ao-Gr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 03:01:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33214 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g5Khz-0001sK-VF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:03:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34017) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g5KhR-0001sD-MJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:02:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g5KhM-0004Zs-Tv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=42207 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g5KhM-0004ZV-Ma for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Sep 2018 21:02:32 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g5KfA-0003S3-UQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2018 03:00:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 81 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:nfXUBJRRe4zHPBei/l7SRwh1WSc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118026 Archived-At: Bob Proulx writes: > Bob Newell wrote: >> Bob Proulx writes: >> > ... But I find doing even simple things quite difficult to >> > impossible. I would never recommend gnus for email. >> >> I can understand the pain. When I attempted the switch from viewmail >> (vm) to gnus, it was ... what am I doing to myself? But ... >> >> Gnus takes a lot of patience, really a lot. It starts to pay off, >> though. When I integrated BBDB that was a huge leap forward, and many >> things became possible that were difficult with other clients. > > Adding BBDB would be a significant increase in functionality. I can > see where in combination that it would be very powerful. > >> I would say, though, that it took me months to get to that stage, >> and years to get to where I am now, where gnus is part of my regular >> workflow and is virtually indispensible. > > I would love to see you write a tutorial article on how you set up and > more importantly how you use gnus and bbdb in your environment. That > would be really useful! :-) > >> I think a lot of people just don't want to go to that much trouble (or >> are not fanatical enough[1], take your pick), and I completely get that, >> when something like Gmail's web client is really easy to use and is >> quickly learned. > > Yes. The seductively easy interface is like the dark side of the > force. If it pulls you in then there is no recovery. > > The gates of hell are open night and day. > Smooth the descent and easy the way. > But to come back, to cheerful skies, > in this the task and mighty labor lies. > --Virgil, Aeneid, iv. 128. (Dryden, Trans.) > >> You mentioned mutt--- that certainly works quite well (I use it once in >> a while when in a rush and not wanting to start up Emacs) although it >> just doesn't have the flexibility and sheer power of Gnus (but you never >> said it did). > > I understand your view that gnus+bbdb+additionals is very powerful. I > would love to get to that point. But on the other side of things mutt > is also extremely powerful and very fast. Mutt is by far the fastest > mail client I have ever used. And also the most powerful. Especially > the search capability. > > In mutt I will often look for something. I remember that I was in the > conversation. I limit the view to only threads that I participated. > Then I will remember a unique word or tag or concept that was in there > somewhere and search for it. Often in conjuction with a header or > some other criteria. Or other combinations. I almost always find > what I am looking for in the first search and the response is always > almost immediate. Very fast. Very powerful. > > It seems to me that you and I could each give a glowing advocacy for > each of our respective tools and the process would sound about the > same. But in each case we would have a different tool named. :-) > >> Gnus plays to a niche audience of devotees. As someone further up in >> this now long thread pointed out, there isn't much it can't do (though >> "do it easily" was definitely not claimed). > > At some point I will get a little bit of time and get back into > reading newsgroups. Using gnus. It has been just long enough that I > will need to review the keybindings again. And at that time there > will be basic actions that I think would make perfect sense but will > be difficult to do. I'll write up my experience with it and kindly > ask you to review it and teach me the error of my ways. > > The problem is almost certainly one of documentation. If I could > figure it out without looking at the source code but only from reading > documentation then I would be happier using it and could possibly > recommend it. It is possible that simply with improvements to the > gnus info and the emacs wiki pages that all could be resolved. :-) If you have suggestions for improving the Gnus documentation, open them as bug reports!