Re: Using R-mail in Emacs

[Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net>]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> Bob Newell wrote:
>> Bob Proulx writes:
>> > ...  But I find doing even simple things quite difficult to
>> > impossible.  I would never recommend gnus for email.
>> 
>> I can understand the pain. When I attempted the switch from viewmail
>> (vm) to gnus, it was ... what am I doing to myself? But ...
>> 
>> Gnus takes a lot of patience, really a lot. It starts to pay off,
>> though. When I integrated BBDB that was a huge leap forward, and many
>> things became possible that were difficult with other clients.
>
> Adding BBDB would be a significant increase in functionality.  I can
> see where in combination that it would be very powerful.
>
>> I would say, though, that it took me months to get to that stage,
>> and years to get to where I am now, where gnus is part of my regular
>> workflow and is virtually indispensible.
>
> I would love to see you write a tutorial article on how you set up and
> more importantly how you use gnus and bbdb in your environment.  That
> would be really useful! :-)
>
>> I think a lot of people just don't want to go to that much trouble (or
>> are not fanatical enough[1], take your pick), and I completely get that,
>> when something like Gmail's web client is really easy to use and is
>> quickly learned.
>
> Yes.  The seductively easy interface is like the dark side of the
> force.  If it pulls you in then there is no recovery.
>
>   The gates of hell are open night and day.
>   Smooth the descent and easy the way.
>   But to come back, to cheerful skies,
>   in this the task and mighty labor lies.
>     --Virgil, Aeneid, iv. 128. (Dryden, Trans.)
>
>> You mentioned mutt--- that certainly works quite well (I use it once in
>> a while when in a rush and not wanting to start up Emacs) although it
>> just doesn't have the flexibility and sheer power of Gnus (but you never
>> said it did).
>
> I understand your view that gnus+bbdb+additionals is very powerful.  I
> would love to get to that point.  But on the other side of things mutt
> is also extremely powerful and very fast.  Mutt is by far the fastest
> mail client I have ever used.  And also the most powerful.  Especially
> the search capability.
>
> In mutt I will often look for something.  I remember that I was in the
> conversation.  I limit the view to only threads that I participated.
> Then I will remember a unique word or tag or concept that was in there
> somewhere and search for it.  Often in conjuction with a header or
> some other criteria.  Or other combinations.  I almost always find
> what I am looking for in the first search and the response is always
> almost immediate.  Very fast.  Very powerful.
>
> It seems to me that you and I could each give a glowing advocacy for
> each of our respective tools and the process would sound about the
> same.  But in each case we would have a different tool named. :-)
>
>> Gnus plays to a niche audience of devotees. As someone further up in
>> this now long thread pointed out, there isn't much it can't do (though
>> "do it easily" was definitely not claimed).
>
> At some point I will get a little bit of time and get back into
> reading newsgroups.  Using gnus.  It has been just long enough that I
> will need to review the keybindings again.  And at that time there
> will be basic actions that I think would make perfect sense but will
> be difficult to do.  I'll write up my experience with it and kindly
> ask you to review it and teach me the error of my ways.
>
> The problem is almost certainly one of documentation.  If I could
> figure it out without looking at the source code but only from reading
> documentation then I would be happier using it and could possibly
> recommend it.  It is possible that simply with improvements to the
> gnus info and the emacs wiki pages that all could be resolved. :-)

If you have suggestions for improving the Gnus documentation, open them
as bug reports!