From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:54:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87blcn76ti.fsf@zoho.eu> References: <871rdk4c1m.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <640551af-d035-f133-3b98-fe7c7a06279d@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Emanuel Berg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38915"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:cXVUBNBB1QC5ti1OQFx9YFZeAog= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 14 02:54:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lB6cM-000A09-72 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:54:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38972 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB6cL-00073J-AW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:54:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50370) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB6c1-000737-VI for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:54:13 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:54134) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB6c0-0007lS-76 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:54:13 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lB6bx-0009ZR-Rf for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:54:09 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127991 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov wrote: >> I only use graphical Emacs myself. But I think that >> terminal Emacs is still important, as Jean Louis says. >> Lots of people who have started using Emacs recently came >> to from the terminal. You can see that on Emacs Reddit. > > Those are often former Vim developers, too. So it might not > be due to the nature of their work, but largely due to their > previous habits. > > It's not a 100% conclusion of the survey we have referred to > previously, but its results state that ~30% of all users are > in the terminal, ~30% of all users are using a Vim key > bindings emulation, and ~30% of all users have been using > Vim as their primary editor previously. They can't be all > the same users, but it's an interesting coincidence. They write Also if you have some cool analysis and want to share it, please let us know and we can link to you. [1] (I'll CC this reply to them) I'm just one person (d'oh) who didn't even knew of the survey, and TBH I was totally chocked by that digit (7344 responses) - I mean, here were are some 20 bunch of guys talking about the same damn stuff year in year out - and suddenly 7344 people have responded to a, to me unheard of survey! - but anyway ... in my case it isn't correct. I did CS at the university and in the intro course they mentioned Emacs. I used nano at the time, in a manner of speaking. I tried Emacs in the Linux VT because I was, and still is I guess, a keyboard/typing fan(atic), and setting the keys there was much simper, I thought, i.e. in the VTs, than in xterm, my then-and-now X terminal emulator of choice. So I never did Vim. I understand "visudo" but apart from understanding it it doesn't make sense to me based on previous or any experience whatsoever actually. > But I rarely ever see someone using the 'C-z' -> 'fg' pair, > in fact, I struggle to remember anyone do that (except some > of the sysadmins, I guess). I am aware of that capability > myself, but never take advantage of it, opting instead for > an additional split in the terminal emulator. Overall, it > seems to be like it had been more important in the earlier > age when operating systems had no real multitasking. Now we > have terminal splits, and tmux, and so on. Indeed, I think the terminal multiplexers and in particular tmux has removed the need for C-z/fg. It is better as well, since you don't let go of Emacs. > I'm a web developer by trade, so maybe I could clarify > a few things. OT: I've read that You should include the following viewport element in all your web pages: [2] but after spending tons of time on the HTML5/CSS on a couple of blog articles [3] using that meta tag screws everything up, even (especially) on my smartphone, a Samsung Galaxy Note 2 LTE GT-N7105 16GB. Without it, I think it looks good. I'd LOVE to get feedback from a pro, if you can find the time (working with this professionally, I get it you might not enjoy doing it on your spare time as well. but maybe it won't take many minutes. I hope not :)) [1] https://emacssurvey.org/2020/ [2] https://www.w3schools.com/css/css_rwd_viewport.asp [3] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/climbing-gear/climbing-gear.html https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/box-10/marco-antonio-barrera.html https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/box-10/list.html https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tree-house/tree-house.html - all using the same CSS file: https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/global.css -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 https://dataswamp.org/~incal