Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Drew Adams]

Apologies for not (much) following the threads
about facemenu.  I think I gathered that facemenu
will no longer be preloaded - is that right?

If so, I guess it will be a loss for the Edit menu,
submenu Text Properties, in particular.  Was that
discussed/considered?

It's one thing to not keep the `M-o' behavior by
default.  It's another thing to remove or bridle
the Text Properties menu.  I'm guessing that's a
main way that users can discover its features.

If this was already discussed and considered, then
sorry for the noise.  If not, maybe it could be
considered (belatedly)?

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Juri Linkov]

> Apologies for not (much) following the threads
> about facemenu.  I think I gathered that facemenu
> will no longer be preloaded - is that right?
>
> If so, I guess it will be a loss for the Edit menu,
> submenu Text Properties, in particular.  Was that
> discussed/considered?
>
> It's one thing to not keep the `M-o' behavior by
> default.  It's another thing to remove or bridle
> the Text Properties menu.  I'm guessing that's a
> main way that users can discover its features.
>
> If this was already discussed and considered, then
> sorry for the noise.  If not, maybe it could be
> considered (belatedly)?

I don't use menus, but while testing emacs -Q noticed that
the menu Text Properties currently is broken with

  Wrong type argument: commandp, facemenu-menu

Maybe it could be moved to mode-specific menus
that support facemenu?

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:

> I don't use menus, but while testing emacs -Q noticed that
> the menu Text Properties currently is broken with
>
>   Wrong type argument: commandp, facemenu-menu
>
> Maybe it could be moved to mode-specific menus
> that support facemenu?

Yes, that'd make sense.  I guess it's basically only enriched-mode
where facemenu makes sense?  But enriched-mode doesn't even have a menu,
as far as I can tell.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

RE: [External] : Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Drew Adams]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 670 bytes --]

> > Maybe it could be moved to mode-specific menus
> > that support facemenu?
> 
> Yes, that'd make sense.  I guess it's basically
> only enriched-mode where facemenu makes sense?

I've replied to this at least once.  No, it's not
only enriched-mode that makes use of facemenu.el
code.  Not at all.

In particular it adds menu `Text Properties', which
lets you add/remove/describe/change/... text
properties.  See attached image (vanilla).

And I've pointed to library `facemenu+.el', which
extends menu `Text Properties'.  See other attached
screenshot (and note that there are also submenus).

Enriched mode is a small part of what facemenu offers.

[-- Attachment #2: throw-Text-Properties-menu.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 25592 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: throw-vanilla-Text-Properties-menu.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 7477 bytes --]

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Juri Linkov]

>> I don't use menus, but while testing emacs -Q noticed that
>> the menu Text Properties currently is broken with
>>
>>   Wrong type argument: commandp, facemenu-menu
>>
>> Maybe it could be moved to mode-specific menus
>> that support facemenu?
>
> Yes, that'd make sense.  I guess it's basically only enriched-mode
> where facemenu makes sense?  But enriched-mode doesn't even have a menu,
> as far as I can tell.

I tried to visit etc/enriched.txt and it has a "Text" menu
with such items "Center Line", "Center Paragraph"…

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:

> I tried to visit etc/enriched.txt and it has a "Text" menu
> with such items "Center Line", "Center Paragraph"…

That's the normal `text-mode' menu, isn't it?  But I guess it'd make
sense to just move the text property menu over there, and disable it
unless we have `enriched-mode' enabled...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 20:49:26 +0200
> Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>,
>  "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net> writes:
> 
> > I tried to visit etc/enriched.txt and it has a "Text" menu
> > with such items "Center Line", "Center Paragraph"…
> 
> That's the normal `text-mode' menu, isn't it?  But I guess it'd make
> sense to just move the text property menu over there, and disable it
> unless we have `enriched-mode' enabled...

Please don't move the Text Properties menu to Enriched -- it has
nothing special to do with Enriched mode (although users of Enriched
mode are supposed to use this menu).  It is a separate feature that
can be used independently of Enriched mode.

It is, of course, okay to disable/remove it when facemenu isn't
loaded, provided that loading facemenu enables/adds it back to the
Edit menu.

Thanks.

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Please don't move the Text Properties menu to Enriched -- it has
> nothing special to do with Enriched mode (although users of Enriched
> mode are supposed to use this menu).  It is a separate feature that
> can be used independently of Enriched mode.

Sorry; didn't see this until after I moved it.  But I think it makes a
lot more sense in the Text menu than in the Edit menu.  (Except for the
few items that seem to have nothing to do with text property editing,
like "Display Faces" and "Display Colors", which should perhaps be moved
somewhere else.

> It is, of course, okay to disable/remove it when facemenu isn't
> loaded, provided that loading facemenu enables/adds it back to the
> Edit menu.

I think having it automatically in the Text menu (with enriched mode) is
more helpful than not having it at all in the menu bar -- unless the
user loads facemenu.el.

But I have no strong opinions here -- feel free to move this around as
you wish.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Removal of facemenu preload - Text Properties menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: juri@linkov.net,  drew.adams@oracle.com,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 21:15:10 +0200
> 
> > It is, of course, okay to disable/remove it when facemenu isn't
> > loaded, provided that loading facemenu enables/adds it back to the
> > Edit menu.
> 
> I think having it automatically in the Text menu (with enriched mode) is
> more helpful than not having it at all in the menu bar -- unless the
> user loads facemenu.el.
> 
> But I have no strong opinions here -- feel free to move this around as
> you wish.

Done.