From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Augusto Stoffel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:50:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87bkbv2hq8.fsf@gmail.com> References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87pm0hsxcv.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h6ltst6p.fsf@yahoo.com> <83v8a8wwes.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38026"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= , luangruo@yahoo.com, joaotavora@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, dmitry@gutov.dev, bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 15 15:51:48 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r3HF5-0009lR-Uq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:51:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3HEN-0004YM-OL; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:51:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3HEL-0004Y2-TM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:51:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r3HE3-0002JT-PQ; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:51:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-77bac408851so78594185a.1; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:50:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700059841; x=1700664641; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GJriL9SP7wv2+8ToWste5QWdq/xfoU224C3080SxdT0=; b=GdgnsIpiEr3g4AlQmRYOStghcJlGI7gtR7uTVjZaW7UBIvSvLaVWOyuy1oXFzZdYZA jKcXevKp7dO/FFxpf+8Akjwl6SnX8Vu09Fs9uVUDnZyhD18LiWDg9r4/KjcOMP1jxEca YntBCl6M5v7yEqM7//Dk4uzB1pzUxObIre/am6qEyZdFHJN09VkcibHJpP8xP4I6F4/S 8eXJNMDNL/KZ8eXoZr22Z0QrANXiDpqHbiXphsHScR5wlR4AG4x1i+ecv0xYtJObvQBU qZsrk/xIGxs5nc8yc1CRDsZypWz4IwF0PF0cIt6KldAbcHWIw6HYKxem5S1BOxQzTxny kxhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700059841; x=1700664641; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=GJriL9SP7wv2+8ToWste5QWdq/xfoU224C3080SxdT0=; b=B6aO2KWRPGYvIE4xQ+DTBjR5TWW8uKUu2AJl87ZQYrN2aWGmde/APbuS4X+oj/ioAA FpsxCv9yS3N5SfxjnNloWfF0DwmDrEyq8Ba2CqLvylXkRNUtUxg0vOPw0OKTdyLYgATy zTFrE3zJwYWtHj8rWGbzqtVKrLMyciJrt37YjlrymFHL6V9nepRWf5SiHI5AKifqacBj N7qUaSVItzplWt2oFmU3OtyTvflJMZxnW7c/strAxbVpxqej8QUpPrAYw0WJoKMKN8u3 y4IUEW8HX0bltjJn/1YTU0RLGmdL2Ff5yCqGkXjj94vNTyNpE0fZs0cyzxib8TlS9coI SCjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxqF5QtxmY4zx2FcCwPk7qSRUcZv1JtVFuLqcZz8Pi7S9YAg0Q0 8PqAV0vYfEtUQlj/11JykQiq5pPBMVGVPw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGm5MQ5cPaBm29KJ4/hilQvtIEr8ur+TznTaq89mmj6VupR9cSl1i9AAUVDKajQcUCTYThxpQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:514d:b0:677:9190:13bd with SMTP id kh13-20020a056214514d00b00677919013bdmr8963138qvb.10.1700059841473; Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:50:41 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ars3 ([2601:193:8201:6b70:ce48:802c:b8ef:d777]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fx3-20020a05622a4ac300b0040399fb5ef3sm3390087qtb.0.2023.11.15.06.50.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:50:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83v8a8wwes.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 10:01:47 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::729; envelope-from=arstoffel@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x729.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312764 Archived-At: On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 10:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > map.el isn't preloaded. Only seq.el is. By the way, map.el has some serious flaws that should be fixed before it becomes more widespread (I've filed a couple of bugs some time ago). The main issue is that it treats maps as mutable objects rather than values, so it only feels natural when used on hash tables. It's cumbersome when operating on alists and plists.